5 ms·

At a tech company that did this, the best people would leave. The remaining people would be the ones who are below average, or the ones who can’t risk a job los

At a tech company that did this, the best people would leave. The remaining people would be the ones who are below average, or the ones who can’t risk a job loss because of visa issues. What Google is doing now is clearly not great for morale either, but universal compensation cuts would be worse.

clnq 4y ago
Maybe, maybe not. Many senior people (especially those who spent close to a decade at these companies and more) don't chase pay bumps. Some of the best people would leave. That is a much more realistic statement to my mind.
neilv 4y ago
> At a tech company that did this [10% pay cut for everyone in lieu of layoffs], the best people would leave. Why would that be? Is it trust? If I was making FAANG Staff+ TC, and a 10% paycut seemed necessary to avert layoffs in tough times, I think I'd take it, and have good morale about that. I suppose, if the company currently had large profits, and people didn't trust that belt-tightening was necessary, there'd be morale problems.
- twblalock 4y ago
  There tends to be a self-fulfilling aspect of this. Some good people might not leave just because of a 10% pay cut -- but others would, and the ones who plan to stay will suffer the consequences of that happening. It's demoralizing, it creates an impression that the company is a sinking ship, the workload for the people who stay will increase to cover for the people who left, and the overall quality of coworkers moves in a bad direction. Those are all pretty good non-money reasons to want to leave. Tech workers have options, even in today's job market. If you work at the only auto parts plant in your region and pay cuts might be necessary to save the company, the logic is different.
  - Apocryphon 4y ago
    And layoffs are even more demoralizing. They’re like pay cuts but even more extreme. Companies always factor in voluntary attrition after layoffs.
    - twblalock 4y ago
      That's true, and I mentioned that what Google is doing now is also demoralizing, but consider the following: With layoffs, you either get screwed or you don't. With company-wide pay cuts, everyone gets screwed.
      - Apocryphon 4y ago
        The ones who get screwed with layoffs aren't just the ones who let go. They're the ones who have to stay and clean up the mess afterwards. Also it opens up the floodgates to the possibility of further layoffs, where you might still get screwed.
- cableshaft 4y ago
  Well all the FAANG are doing it right now, so not the best example, but if your company is cutting salary and other companies that offer the same TC are not, then there's no reason to be loyal to a company anymore (companies aren't loyal to you), you might as well jump ship to the company that will give you more money for pretty much the same work. Usually people only get raises when they job hop anyway. I've been at a company that cut benefits because of hard times. I stupidly stuck around longer than I should have. Those benefits never came back, after multiple years. Meanwhile those that were laid off got all those benefits and more back with their next company. I eventually left and got all of it back plus a large salary bump.
  - twelve40 4y ago
    I don't get this "instantly jump ship logic". Finding the next big thing takes time, even for the best people. A bunch of other companies are laying off too right now, so that makes the search harder, not a great time to rage quit. One company may steal the benefits forever, another one may actually bring them back at some point. Rage quitting immediately after a 10% pay cut doesn't seem very logical, wouldn't you want to stick around for a bit to see if the company recovers (and the job market improves)? and only then move.
    - cableshaft 4y ago
      I have personally been the guy that 'stuck around to see if the company recovers'. I stayed for three years with just more of my benefits cut, salary freezes, promised "we'll maybe promote you in six months or so even though you've already been doing your previous bosses job for a year and we refer to you as the SME in the department" multiple times without it happening, etc. When I finally jumped ship, I got a 60% raise and better benefits than I ever had at that company. Meanwhile everyone else who left or were laid off were getting their raises and salary bumps and 401k matches etc that entire time so the opportunity cost of all that lost salary for me was very high. I should have been looking immediately and left as soon as I found something better. As a hint of how they're currently doing, their stock has gone down 71% since I joined seven years ago, and down about 30% since I've left a year and a half ago. I sat and listened to each of their quarterly earnings reports and I think every quarter their year-over-year revenue went down the entire time I was there. I'd still be waiting for things to get better if I was still there. I'm not saying turn in your notice today, I'm saying the company can always hire someone to replace you if they're desperate enough, don't worry about being loyal to it, at the expense of your own livelihood, out of hopes that maybe it'll get better someday. If it does, rejoin the company after it gets better. As long as you didn't burn the bridge on the way out, they'll probably be happy to rehire you. And you might get a better salary that way than if you stayed the entire time. That's not the only time I stuck around, btw. I've been one of the guys that survived an initial layoff just to be laid off in a later round three other times. They were in the video game industry, so I wanted to stick it out until the game was released at least, and thought 'well maybe things will get better by then'. It didn't. I was just unemployed and not making any money while looking for a new job, (severance isn't much of a thing in the game industry, at least not for smaller companies), which also made me a bit desperate to take the first job that gave me an offer, instead of being employed while looking and able to be more discerning.
- novok 4y ago
  They don't really need to explicitly cut TC, it's already being cut by the stock value dropping a lot and no new stock grants being given out, on top of a general %25 inflation in pricing in almost everything with no concordant compensation bump. Annual refreshers / raises this year are probably going to be reduced. Voila! Tech worker comp was just dropped %20 and you didn't even need to make it obvious!
Yoric 4y ago
I consider myself a pretty good employee and I wouldn't leave for that. Especially if I had projects in flight at the company. YMMV

clnq 4y ago

Maybe, maybe not. Many senior people (especially those who spent close to a decade at these companies and more) don't chase pay bumps. Some of the best people would leave. That is a much more realistic statement to my mind.

neilv 4y ago

> At a tech company that did this [10% pay cut for everyone in lieu of layoffs], the best people would leave. Why would that be? Is it trust? If I was making FAANG Staff+ TC, and a 10% paycut seemed necessary to avert layoffs in tough times, I think I'd take it, and have good morale about that. I suppose, if the company currently had large profits, and people didn't trust that belt-tightening was necessary, there'd be morale problems.

twblalock 4y ago
There tends to be a self-fulfilling aspect of this. Some good people might not leave just because of a 10% pay cut -- but others would, and the ones who plan to stay will suffer the consequences of that happening. It's demoralizing, it creates an impression that the company is a sinking ship, the workload for the people who stay will increase to cover for the people who left, and the overall quality of coworkers moves in a bad direction. Those are all pretty good non-money reasons to want to leave. Tech workers have options, even in today's job market. If you work at the only auto parts plant in your region and pay cuts might be necessary to save the company, the logic is different.
- Apocryphon 4y ago
  And layoffs are even more demoralizing. They’re like pay cuts but even more extreme. Companies always factor in voluntary attrition after layoffs.
  - twblalock 4y ago
    That's true, and I mentioned that what Google is doing now is also demoralizing, but consider the following: With layoffs, you either get screwed or you don't. With company-wide pay cuts, everyone gets screwed.
    - Apocryphon 4y ago
      The ones who get screwed with layoffs aren't just the ones who let go. They're the ones who have to stay and clean up the mess afterwards. Also it opens up the floodgates to the possibility of further layoffs, where you might still get screwed.
cableshaft 4y ago
Well all the FAANG are doing it right now, so not the best example, but if your company is cutting salary and other companies that offer the same TC are not, then there's no reason to be loyal to a company anymore (companies aren't loyal to you), you might as well jump ship to the company that will give you more money for pretty much the same work. Usually people only get raises when they job hop anyway. I've been at a company that cut benefits because of hard times. I stupidly stuck around longer than I should have. Those benefits never came back, after multiple years. Meanwhile those that were laid off got all those benefits and more back with their next company. I eventually left and got all of it back plus a large salary bump.
- twelve40 4y ago
  I don't get this "instantly jump ship logic". Finding the next big thing takes time, even for the best people. A bunch of other companies are laying off too right now, so that makes the search harder, not a great time to rage quit. One company may steal the benefits forever, another one may actually bring them back at some point. Rage quitting immediately after a 10% pay cut doesn't seem very logical, wouldn't you want to stick around for a bit to see if the company recovers (and the job market improves)? and only then move.
  - cableshaft 4y ago
    I have personally been the guy that 'stuck around to see if the company recovers'. I stayed for three years with just more of my benefits cut, salary freezes, promised "we'll maybe promote you in six months or so even though you've already been doing your previous bosses job for a year and we refer to you as the SME in the department" multiple times without it happening, etc. When I finally jumped ship, I got a 60% raise and better benefits than I ever had at that company. Meanwhile everyone else who left or were laid off were getting their raises and salary bumps and 401k matches etc that entire time so the opportunity cost of all that lost salary for me was very high. I should have been looking immediately and left as soon as I found something better. As a hint of how they're currently doing, their stock has gone down 71% since I joined seven years ago, and down about 30% since I've left a year and a half ago. I sat and listened to each of their quarterly earnings reports and I think every quarter their year-over-year revenue went down the entire time I was there. I'd still be waiting for things to get better if I was still there. I'm not saying turn in your notice today, I'm saying the company can always hire someone to replace you if they're desperate enough, don't worry about being loyal to it, at the expense of your own livelihood, out of hopes that maybe it'll get better someday. If it does, rejoin the company after it gets better. As long as you didn't burn the bridge on the way out, they'll probably be happy to rehire you. And you might get a better salary that way than if you stayed the entire time. That's not the only time I stuck around, btw. I've been one of the guys that survived an initial layoff just to be laid off in a later round three other times. They were in the video game industry, so I wanted to stick it out until the game was released at least, and thought 'well maybe things will get better by then'. It didn't. I was just unemployed and not making any money while looking for a new job, (severance isn't much of a thing in the game industry, at least not for smaller companies), which also made me a bit desperate to take the first job that gave me an offer, instead of being employed while looking and able to be more discerning.
novok 4y ago
They don't really need to explicitly cut TC, it's already being cut by the stock value dropping a lot and no new stock grants being given out, on top of a general %25 inflation in pricing in almost everything with no concordant compensation bump. Annual refreshers / raises this year are probably going to be reduced. Voila! Tech worker comp was just dropped %20 and you didn't even need to make it obvious!

Yoric 4y ago

I consider myself a pretty good employee and I wouldn't leave for that. Especially if I had projects in flight at the company. YMMV