4 ms·

UBI just seems like the dumbest idea, and frankly, almost appears to be a psyop meant to distract. There is so much wrong with many of America's systems like h

UBI just seems like the dumbest idea, and frankly, almost appears to be a psyop meant to distract. There is so much wrong with many of America's systems like health care and housing, with UBI a bandaid solution. Fix the systems first, then see if you even need UBI to begin with...

scotty79 4y ago
UBI is something that the rich people are starting to need. Because poor people are sucked dry now so they need injection of fresh money so they can be sucked further by the rich.
- cudgy 4y ago
  Pouring water from the rich guy’s pool into the public reservoir today; only to fill the pool back the next day. The gesture is there, but no net effect on the water supply. Genius!
  - scotty79 4y ago
    It's perfect from the point of view of the rich. Especially since they might end up with some of their other rich neighbor pool water that they couldn't get their hands on before.
- richwater 4y ago
  We already had that, it was called COVID relief spending and was championed by both political parties.
  - cudgy 4y ago
    Similar but covid spending was still targeted mostly to corps and people on unemployment, which is far from universal.
  - scotty79 4y ago
    That's why it happened. Rich knew this money ends up with them ultimately. That's why UBI might happen, because rich know they will be the ultimate benficiaries. So they can let it happen.
gremlinsinc 4y ago
When middle class (mc) person #1, drops to lower class(lc), and lc #2 drops to homeless, there's less money available from a or b to pay for goods that pay the wages of mc #3, so there's a downward push where #3 now gets fired and becomes lc, this is happening all across america, and ai can just about replace every customer service agent at this point, if they all retrained as programmers - supply/demand would make programmers worth 10k/year. We'd essentially be like India, except home prices would way more unattainable than they are now. You give money to the bottom, it cycles back up to the rich through landlording, goods sold, etc.
Gunax 4y ago
It's not hard to prove that UBI doesn't make sense. Just take the adult population, multiply by $15,000 per year and get a number that's 3 trillion or so (depending on who exactly is eligible and how much they receive). It's a perfect microcosm of debate today. Left wingers get to propose a solution. Right wingers get to call the left wingers dumb idealists. Left wingers get to call right wingers evil racists, etc.
- Euphorbium 4y ago
  How many trillions do you spend on war per year?
  - Gunax 4y ago
    Less than one. If you think you made some grand point, consider that this can be determined in like 10 seconds of internet searching. And in fact you're just further proving my point that supporters have absolutely no idea about actual budgets. Eliminate all military, and you can increase the UBI from about 15k to 18k per year. Thanks for mentioning this though, as it's exactly the proof i needed that left wingers really dont know how a budget works.
- opportune 4y ago
  UBI can replace (at least partially) social security and related programs like SSI and unemployment insurance. It can maybe entirely replace SNAP and TANF. UBI would need higher taxes which for most people would likely end up being a wash or net gain. The nice thing about UBI being automatic and not means tested is it means anybody can lose their job or quit and immediately start receiving benefits. Rather than what we have now where it’s stressful and bureaucratic to get benefits, and once you are on benefits you are faced with a welfare cliff.
  - wizofaus 4y ago
    Are we so certain it needs higher taxes? Have the trial schemes that have been run shown that?
- 4y ago

scotty79 4y ago

UBI is something that the rich people are starting to need. Because poor people are sucked dry now so they need injection of fresh money so they can be sucked further by the rich.

cudgy 4y ago
Pouring water from the rich guy’s pool into the public reservoir today; only to fill the pool back the next day. The gesture is there, but no net effect on the water supply. Genius!
- scotty79 4y ago
  It's perfect from the point of view of the rich. Especially since they might end up with some of their other rich neighbor pool water that they couldn't get their hands on before.
richwater 4y ago
We already had that, it was called COVID relief spending and was championed by both political parties.
- cudgy 4y ago
  Similar but covid spending was still targeted mostly to corps and people on unemployment, which is far from universal.
- scotty79 4y ago
  That's why it happened. Rich knew this money ends up with them ultimately. That's why UBI might happen, because rich know they will be the ultimate benficiaries. So they can let it happen.

gremlinsinc 4y ago

When middle class (mc) person #1, drops to lower class(lc), and lc #2 drops to homeless, there's less money available from a or b to pay for goods that pay the wages of mc #3, so there's a downward push where #3 now gets fired and becomes lc, this is happening all across america, and ai can just about replace every customer service agent at this point, if they all retrained as programmers - supply/demand would make programmers worth 10k/year. We'd essentially be like India, except home prices would way more unattainable than they are now. You give money to the bottom, it cycles back up to the rich through landlording, goods sold, etc.

Gunax 4y ago

It's not hard to prove that UBI doesn't make sense. Just take the adult population, multiply by $15,000 per year and get a number that's 3 trillion or so (depending on who exactly is eligible and how much they receive). It's a perfect microcosm of debate today. Left wingers get to propose a solution. Right wingers get to call the left wingers dumb idealists. Left wingers get to call right wingers evil racists, etc.

Euphorbium 4y ago
How many trillions do you spend on war per year?
- Gunax 4y ago
  Less than one. If you think you made some grand point, consider that this can be determined in like 10 seconds of internet searching. And in fact you're just further proving my point that supporters have absolutely no idea about actual budgets. Eliminate all military, and you can increase the UBI from about 15k to 18k per year. Thanks for mentioning this though, as it's exactly the proof i needed that left wingers really dont know how a budget works.
opportune 4y ago
UBI can replace (at least partially) social security and related programs like SSI and unemployment insurance. It can maybe entirely replace SNAP and TANF. UBI would need higher taxes which for most people would likely end up being a wash or net gain. The nice thing about UBI being automatic and not means tested is it means anybody can lose their job or quit and immediately start receiving benefits. Rather than what we have now where it’s stressful and bureaucratic to get benefits, and once you are on benefits you are faced with a welfare cliff.
- wizofaus 4y ago
  Are we so certain it needs higher taxes? Have the trial schemes that have been run shown that?
4y ago