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That can't be the result of using LED ligthing, because modern LEDs are really good and don't require much correction in post, yet movies still look like that.

That can't be the result of using LED ligthing, because modern LEDs are really good and don't require much correction in post, yet movies still look like that. In fact, I don't think you can pinpoint this to a single technical reason. It's just the industry converged onto the same recipe book - some of that is cost cutting, some is just massive amounts of A/B testing throughout the years. Demand leads to optimization, which in turn leads to convergence and less varied supply. Which is kind of paradoxical, considering the low barrier and creative freedom available with today's tools. And yes, it really started to happen somewhere in early 2000s, not just with movies and the looks but with everything related to visual entertainment, from games to illustrations.

KaiserPro 4y ago
its nothing to do with LEDs all shots are conformed before they are graded. That means that they shoot a macbeth chart every time they change the lighting, allowing for people to make all the shots look the same before they start to fiddle with the colours.
- jorlow 4y ago
  This is only partially true. The problem with LED lights is that they deviate quite a bit from a Planck and/or daylight frequency curve. So you can end up with colors looking different even if the color chart looks right. And even the best Aari LED lights have ssi scores of only ~75. I wouldn't be surprised if this is a part of the effect the author describes.
  - KaiserPro 4y ago
    if that was the case then teal/orange grades would be "impossible" as most lights don't kick out that much teal (~510nm) Not only that, but you can micro adjust the colour of these lights to suit your needs, which means you can have much richer colours on set and not worry about colour cast. if it was such a burden on the film maker, and limited artistic expression, then we'd see holdouts for tungsten lights (in film making). When was the last time you hear someone in film go: "yeah, these filament lamps are so much greater than LEDs, so much more real." If you're on location then you can have >5 times the amount of light for the same power/heat budget. No one is going to sniff at that. Anyway, the first thing you do when you get film/footage in through the door is conform it. you need to have everything at a base grade before you can add "artistic colour" to it. so subtle difference in colours are always obliterated.
    - djhn 4y ago
      Whenever I've used the local rental house, it's the massive ARRI tungstens that are being loaded in the production trucks. Although I guess it's their size that makes them stand out, maybe the LEDs I just don't notice.
crotho 4y ago
It's a decision with the grading and it's a zeitgeist. https://www.vox.com/culture/22840526/colors-movies-tv-gray-digital-color-sludge https://www.vox.com/culture/22840526/colors-movies-tv-gray-d... There's another article I can't find on it. It's got nothing to do with netflix. Digital is not to blame either, but it's certainly a catalyst. It mostly has to do with insecurity surrounding digital and the bizarre idea that saturation is trying to 'emulate' film, (when color timing films was always just been about trying to emulate reality). You can correct most of this problem with a decent media player. Just play a film in VLC and touch up the saturation and possibly the contrast in the effects settings. It really doesn't take much adjustment to makes a film that once had a depressing palette suddenly half decent. I can't tolerate watching films through sunglasses so do this pretty often. It really is a fashion. I've seen an advert for grading software that had a famous photographer casually showing the viewer how he ruins his pictures with this process of desaturation. I've no why people think this looks good, but it is deliberate. I asked the cinematography reddit once why people do this and got a lot of incoherent responses about how saturation is just trying to emulate film and that it's just how 'new' things should look. Apparently many new filmmakers experience of reality has been through tea-shades on an overcast day. It beggars belief.
- orbital-decay 4y ago
  Colors, yes - but the article discusses more than just grading, it's the entire visual language that is optimized and inevitably lacks individuality. I don't think it's just fashion, more likely it's the result of convergence in a mature industry under market pressure. The same trend is also clearly visible in everything visual in the recent two decades, not just cinematography.
renewiltord 4y ago
Yeah, another example is NBA shooting style, which converged to hard 3s plus layups for a time https://www.thespax.com/nba/the-nbas-ongoing-three-point-revolution/ https://www.thespax.com/nba/the-nbas-ongoing-three-point-rev...

KaiserPro 4y ago

its nothing to do with LEDs all shots are conformed before they are graded. That means that they shoot a macbeth chart every time they change the lighting, allowing for people to make all the shots look the same before they start to fiddle with the colours.

jorlow 4y ago
This is only partially true. The problem with LED lights is that they deviate quite a bit from a Planck and/or daylight frequency curve. So you can end up with colors looking different even if the color chart looks right. And even the best Aari LED lights have ssi scores of only ~75. I wouldn't be surprised if this is a part of the effect the author describes.
- KaiserPro 4y ago
  if that was the case then teal/orange grades would be "impossible" as most lights don't kick out that much teal (~510nm) Not only that, but you can micro adjust the colour of these lights to suit your needs, which means you can have much richer colours on set and not worry about colour cast. if it was such a burden on the film maker, and limited artistic expression, then we'd see holdouts for tungsten lights (in film making). When was the last time you hear someone in film go: "yeah, these filament lamps are so much greater than LEDs, so much more real." If you're on location then you can have >5 times the amount of light for the same power/heat budget. No one is going to sniff at that. Anyway, the first thing you do when you get film/footage in through the door is conform it. you need to have everything at a base grade before you can add "artistic colour" to it. so subtle difference in colours are always obliterated.
  - djhn 4y ago
    Whenever I've used the local rental house, it's the massive ARRI tungstens that are being loaded in the production trucks. Although I guess it's their size that makes them stand out, maybe the LEDs I just don't notice.

crotho 4y ago

It's a decision with the grading and it's a zeitgeist. https://www.vox.com/culture/22840526/colors-movies-tv-gray-digital-color-sludge https://www.vox.com/culture/22840526/colors-movies-tv-gray-d... There's another article I can't find on it. It's got nothing to do with netflix. Digital is not to blame either, but it's certainly a catalyst. It mostly has to do with insecurity surrounding digital and the bizarre idea that saturation is trying to 'emulate' film, (when color timing films was always just been about trying to emulate reality). You can correct most of this problem with a decent media player. Just play a film in VLC and touch up the saturation and possibly the contrast in the effects settings. It really doesn't take much adjustment to makes a film that once had a depressing palette suddenly half decent. I can't tolerate watching films through sunglasses so do this pretty often. It really is a fashion. I've seen an advert for grading software that had a famous photographer casually showing the viewer how he ruins his pictures with this process of desaturation. I've no why people think this looks good, but it is deliberate. I asked the cinematography reddit once why people do this and got a lot of incoherent responses about how saturation is just trying to emulate film and that it's just how 'new' things should look. Apparently many new filmmakers experience of reality has been through tea-shades on an overcast day. It beggars belief.

orbital-decay 4y ago
Colors, yes - but the article discusses more than just grading, it's the entire visual language that is optimized and inevitably lacks individuality. I don't think it's just fashion, more likely it's the result of convergence in a mature industry under market pressure. The same trend is also clearly visible in everything visual in the recent two decades, not just cinematography.

renewiltord 4y ago

Yeah, another example is NBA shooting style, which converged to hard 3s plus layups for a time https://www.thespax.com/nba/the-nbas-ongoing-three-point-revolution/ https://www.thespax.com/nba/the-nbas-ongoing-three-point-rev...