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Traditional casinos make a lot of money. Although the odds are heavily in the house's favor, normal casinos do pay out some percentage of the money that is wage

Traditional casinos make a lot of money. Although the odds are heavily in the house's favor, normal casinos do pay out some percentage of the money that is wagered. Most slot machines, over time, keep over 90% of the money that is put into them, and the rest is given back to the players. The video games that are generating these big revenues are functionally identical to slot machines in their monetization schemes. There's one key difference. These games always keep 100% of the money. There's no way to get real money back. You can get cosmetic upgrades, various fake currencies, power-ups, and all sorts of other things in exchange for the real money. None of those things actually cost the video game company anything. They're just being paid to execute UPDATE statements on their database. The effect of this is that a video game is a casino where no matter how lucky or skilled the player is, the house always keeps 100% of the real money no matter what. And we let children play in these casinos. In many countries they are largely unregulated. Meanwhile, the traditional casino that does occasionally pay out real money, is heavily regulated.

Andrex 4y ago
> The effect of this is that a video game is a casino where no matter how lucky or skilled the player is, the house always keeps 100% of the real money no matter what. And we let children play in these casinos. I think you just described Chuck e. Cheese.
- jedberg 4y ago
  Funny, I was just at Chuck's yesterday. They actually do give back, if you play the ticket games. You can get cheap plastic things that make the kids really happy. Or in our case we got a super cute plush toy that my daughter loves. Given the four hours of entertainment plus the plush toy and car launcher my son got, I'd say we got our money's worth. Also their food is good now.
  - wirthjason 4y ago
    Food is good at Chuck E Cheese?!?! I haven’t been there since I was a kid in the 80’s. All I remember was cheese pizza, which as a kid is the greatest food on earth, but as an adult I’d imagine it’s pretty terrible. They are maximizing cheapest ingredients (because kids don’t care) at nosebleed prices. Glad to hear the food is better. I think it’s a smart business decision to appeal to the adults too. Earning tickets is pretty priceless. Took my daughter to Great America and they had an arcade with ticket dispensing games. She loved it. She’s 3 and not very good but the staffer great sports. They’d put in a coin to show her how it was played and earned a huge strip of tickets (they were pros at all the games) and then give her the tickets.
    - jedberg 4y ago
      I hadn't been in 30 years either! Until my daughter attended a birthday party there and I went along. Not sure when the food got good, but I know during the pandemic to stay in business they were selling their food togo for like $5 per pizza. Never tried it and now I'm sad I didn't! The prices are still sky high but yeah, it's actually edible as an adult, tasty even. At least the one in Cupertino.
- red-iron-pine 4y ago
  Play enough ski ball, get enough tickets, get the big stuffed animal or radio or whatever. It'll probably take you $40 to get a $10 trinket, but you can get something back. In a broader sense you're paying to play the games and when you're done you leave; in FTP the game is free, and they have to addict you, and will spam you with notifications to keep your attention.
jedberg 4y ago
> Most slot machines, over time, keep over 90% of the money that is put into them, and the rest is given back to the players. You have that backwards. Slot machines give back 90%+ of what goes into them. Most strip casinos give back 99%. It's just that they give it back by paying a single jackpot of millions of dollars, so most people walk away losers over time. It's sort of the perfect analogy of concentration of wealth.
- Apreche 4y ago
  If I do indeed have it backwards, that only strengthens the point. Video games are keeping 100%.
- AtlasBarfed 4y ago
  Yes, because of strict gaming commission regulation. For example, do you know that if you do gambling machines on cruise ships, the payouts change substantially as soon as you enter international unregulated waters because there's no longer local gaming commission regulations they need to adhere to
  - jedberg 4y ago
    I did know that. That's why I never gamble outside of the USA. I got screwed on Blackjack in the Caribbean once. Never again.
jamal-kumar 4y ago
I think there's probably massive money laundering happening in these markets. Like if I was trying to do that kind of thing I'd be looking at virtual goods markets in order to get the job done. https://cs.money/csgo/store/ https://cs.money/csgo/store/ Take a look at the values of some of the items on there. Prices like 10000$+ to use a model of a knife in a game that's like from a decade ago sounds like insanity to many people but thinking from the perspective of someone who has something like a lot of illgotten gift cards to wash, the markets exist... I'm sure a ton of it is legitimate but when some of these approach prices of a fourth of a new car it's kind of obvious
- redox99 4y ago
  I find it hilarious how every time people have little knowledge of a niche lucrative market they throw "it's probably money laundering" at it.
  - jamal-kumar 4y ago
    I'm really not just talking out of my ass here, this isn't something without precedent https://archive-yaleglobal.yale.edu/content/money-laundering-video-games-financial-times https://archive-yaleglobal.yale.edu/content/money-laundering...
    - redox99 4y ago
      Just because CSGO is used to cash in stolen credit cards does not mean these multi thousand dollar skins are money laundering. The vast majority of people trading these high value skins are legit people. If you check their profiles, their discords, or the skin trading community in general, this is quite evident.
  - dragonwriter 4y ago
    Online gaming isn't a niche lucrative market, and its pretty well understood given the structural similarity to traditional money laundering magnet industries like casino gambling. And that money laundering has been drawn to it is... pretty well established.
notatoad 4y ago
> And we let children play in these casinos. In many countries they are largely unregulated. Meanwhile, the traditional casino that does occasionally pay out real money, is heavily regulated. When you write it like that it sounds sinister, but the reason that real gambling is dangerous is because you do sometimes get your money back, and it’s possible to convince yourself you still have a chance to come out ahead. Knowing that you’re spending money without ever having a chance to get it back means you’re not gambling, you’re making a purchase. You could say the same about buying food - no matter how lucky or skilled the player is, the house will always keep 100% of the money they spend. Because it’s not gambling.
- usea 4y ago
  Gambling isn't fundamentally different whether you're sometimes getting back coins or chips or a collectible card. It's still dangerous and ensnares people, even when you're buying loot boxes in a video game or packs of pokemon cards. There's a reason hasbro sells packs of random cards with rarities instead of selling an entire set of cards for a flat price. Because they can take advantage of people and hurt them to get more money.
  - BlueTemplar 4y ago
    You can resell physical chips or collectible cards.

Andrex 4y ago

> The effect of this is that a video game is a casino where no matter how lucky or skilled the player is, the house always keeps 100% of the real money no matter what. And we let children play in these casinos. I think you just described Chuck e. Cheese.

jedberg 4y ago
Funny, I was just at Chuck's yesterday. They actually do give back, if you play the ticket games. You can get cheap plastic things that make the kids really happy. Or in our case we got a super cute plush toy that my daughter loves. Given the four hours of entertainment plus the plush toy and car launcher my son got, I'd say we got our money's worth. Also their food is good now.
- wirthjason 4y ago
  Food is good at Chuck E Cheese?!?! I haven’t been there since I was a kid in the 80’s. All I remember was cheese pizza, which as a kid is the greatest food on earth, but as an adult I’d imagine it’s pretty terrible. They are maximizing cheapest ingredients (because kids don’t care) at nosebleed prices. Glad to hear the food is better. I think it’s a smart business decision to appeal to the adults too. Earning tickets is pretty priceless. Took my daughter to Great America and they had an arcade with ticket dispensing games. She loved it. She’s 3 and not very good but the staffer great sports. They’d put in a coin to show her how it was played and earned a huge strip of tickets (they were pros at all the games) and then give her the tickets.
  - jedberg 4y ago
    I hadn't been in 30 years either! Until my daughter attended a birthday party there and I went along. Not sure when the food got good, but I know during the pandemic to stay in business they were selling their food togo for like $5 per pizza. Never tried it and now I'm sad I didn't! The prices are still sky high but yeah, it's actually edible as an adult, tasty even. At least the one in Cupertino.
red-iron-pine 4y ago
Play enough ski ball, get enough tickets, get the big stuffed animal or radio or whatever. It'll probably take you $40 to get a $10 trinket, but you can get something back. In a broader sense you're paying to play the games and when you're done you leave; in FTP the game is free, and they have to addict you, and will spam you with notifications to keep your attention.

jedberg 4y ago

> Most slot machines, over time, keep over 90% of the money that is put into them, and the rest is given back to the players. You have that backwards. Slot machines give back 90%+ of what goes into them. Most strip casinos give back 99%. It's just that they give it back by paying a single jackpot of millions of dollars, so most people walk away losers over time. It's sort of the perfect analogy of concentration of wealth.

Apreche 4y ago
If I do indeed have it backwards, that only strengthens the point. Video games are keeping 100%.
AtlasBarfed 4y ago
Yes, because of strict gaming commission regulation. For example, do you know that if you do gambling machines on cruise ships, the payouts change substantially as soon as you enter international unregulated waters because there's no longer local gaming commission regulations they need to adhere to
- jedberg 4y ago
  I did know that. That's why I never gamble outside of the USA. I got screwed on Blackjack in the Caribbean once. Never again.

jamal-kumar 4y ago

I think there's probably massive money laundering happening in these markets. Like if I was trying to do that kind of thing I'd be looking at virtual goods markets in order to get the job done. https://cs.money/csgo/store/ https://cs.money/csgo/store/ Take a look at the values of some of the items on there. Prices like 10000$+ to use a model of a knife in a game that's like from a decade ago sounds like insanity to many people but thinking from the perspective of someone who has something like a lot of illgotten gift cards to wash, the markets exist... I'm sure a ton of it is legitimate but when some of these approach prices of a fourth of a new car it's kind of obvious

redox99 4y ago
I find it hilarious how every time people have little knowledge of a niche lucrative market they throw "it's probably money laundering" at it.
- jamal-kumar 4y ago
  I'm really not just talking out of my ass here, this isn't something without precedent https://archive-yaleglobal.yale.edu/content/money-laundering-video-games-financial-times https://archive-yaleglobal.yale.edu/content/money-laundering...
  - redox99 4y ago
    Just because CSGO is used to cash in stolen credit cards does not mean these multi thousand dollar skins are money laundering. The vast majority of people trading these high value skins are legit people. If you check their profiles, their discords, or the skin trading community in general, this is quite evident.
- dragonwriter 4y ago
  Online gaming isn't a niche lucrative market, and its pretty well understood given the structural similarity to traditional money laundering magnet industries like casino gambling. And that money laundering has been drawn to it is... pretty well established.

notatoad 4y ago

> And we let children play in these casinos. In many countries they are largely unregulated. Meanwhile, the traditional casino that does occasionally pay out real money, is heavily regulated. When you write it like that it sounds sinister, but the reason that real gambling is dangerous is because you do sometimes get your money back, and it’s possible to convince yourself you still have a chance to come out ahead. Knowing that you’re spending money without ever having a chance to get it back means you’re not gambling, you’re making a purchase. You could say the same about buying food - no matter how lucky or skilled the player is, the house will always keep 100% of the money they spend. Because it’s not gambling.

usea 4y ago
Gambling isn't fundamentally different whether you're sometimes getting back coins or chips or a collectible card. It's still dangerous and ensnares people, even when you're buying loot boxes in a video game or packs of pokemon cards. There's a reason hasbro sells packs of random cards with rarities instead of selling an entire set of cards for a flat price. Because they can take advantage of people and hurt them to get more money.
- BlueTemplar 4y ago
  You can resell physical chips or collectible cards.