4 ms·

And you think they are the same? How much experience do you have with the Japanese job market?

Retric 4y ago
I am not a female in the Japanese job market, but I do have first hand accounts from them. Are you a woman in the Japanese job market?
- mcculley 4y ago
  I am not a woman in the Japanese job market. I am merely a man trying to understand how "job opportunities and career growth severely limited by the heavily patriarchal culture" is the same as "treating half the population as undeserving of a career". I see "job opportunities and career growth severely limited" for women in many industries in the United States and yet it would be silly to say that many think they are "undeserving of a career". I am skeptical of some claims made about specific industries and cultures being much worse than others.
  - Retric 4y ago
    The word choice may be the same, but Japan is significantly more extreme than the US. In 2018 21.8% of Medical doctors in Japan where women vs 36.6% in the US and 48.6% in the UK. https://www.who.int/data/gho/data/indicators/indicator-details/GHO/medical-doctors-by-sex https://www.who.int/data/gho/data/indicators/indicator-detai... You can find more and less extreme examples in various industries, but there’s a real difference between the two counties.
    - mcculley 4y ago
      Does this existence of fewer women in a job mean that they are kept out by those who think them “undeserving of a career”? Only 4% of sewage plant operators are female. Is that because they are kept out of the industry?
      - Retric 4y ago
        Deserving of a career here implies the career is desirable. So, I understand if reality makes you uncomfortable but reality doesn’t care.
        mcculley 4y ago
        The reality of the situation has not caused me any discomfort. I remain unconvinced that the two phrases are descriptions of the same thing.
        Retric 4y ago
        Both phrases where used to describe the same situation. So they quite literally where describing the same thing.
        mcculley 4y ago
        The two phrases were used by two different commenters. I questioned that one was equal to the other. I still do.
        Retric 4y ago
        Do you honestly think they aren’t both describing the job situation in Japan as it applies to women from the poster’s perspective? Because I can only assume you’re playing pretend at this point.
        mcculley 4y ago
        I take offense at your assumption. I have sincerely written what I think. You have implied that you can read my mind and that I am "uncomfortable" or "playing pretend". User SoylentOrange wrote that his wife "found her job opportunities and career growth severely limited by the heavily patriarchal culture." That seems a very believable assertion to me, given what I have read about Japanese culture and seen in many industries outside of tech in Western cultures. User lozenge rephrased that as, "treating half the population as undeserving of a career". I have no idea if lozenge has any experience with Japanese culture. I read his statement as a summary of what SoylentOrange wrote. I remain unconvinced that the median Japanese man thinks that women are undeserving of a career. I welcome those with first hand experience to share more than anecdotes to convince me. To be accused of "playing pretend" when questioning hyperbole makes me reconsider commenting on HN at all.

I am not a female in the Japanese job market, but I do have first hand accounts from them. Are you a woman in the Japanese job market?

mcculley 4y ago
I am not a woman in the Japanese job market. I am merely a man trying to understand how "job opportunities and career growth severely limited by the heavily patriarchal culture" is the same as "treating half the population as undeserving of a career". I see "job opportunities and career growth severely limited" for women in many industries in the United States and yet it would be silly to say that many think they are "undeserving of a career". I am skeptical of some claims made about specific industries and cultures being much worse than others.
- Retric 4y ago
  The word choice may be the same, but Japan is significantly more extreme than the US. In 2018 21.8% of Medical doctors in Japan where women vs 36.6% in the US and 48.6% in the UK. https://www.who.int/data/gho/data/indicators/indicator-details/GHO/medical-doctors-by-sex https://www.who.int/data/gho/data/indicators/indicator-detai... You can find more and less extreme examples in various industries, but there’s a real difference between the two counties.
  - mcculley 4y ago
    Does this existence of fewer women in a job mean that they are kept out by those who think them “undeserving of a career”? Only 4% of sewage plant operators are female. Is that because they are kept out of the industry?
    - Retric 4y ago
      Deserving of a career here implies the career is desirable. So, I understand if reality makes you uncomfortable but reality doesn’t care.
      - mcculley 4y ago
        The reality of the situation has not caused me any discomfort. I remain unconvinced that the two phrases are descriptions of the same thing.
        Retric 4y ago
        Both phrases where used to describe the same situation. So they quite literally where describing the same thing.
        mcculley 4y ago
        The two phrases were used by two different commenters. I questioned that one was equal to the other. I still do.
        Retric 4y ago
        Do you honestly think they aren’t both describing the job situation in Japan as it applies to women from the poster’s perspective? Because I can only assume you’re playing pretend at this point.
        mcculley 4y ago
        I take offense at your assumption. I have sincerely written what I think. You have implied that you can read my mind and that I am "uncomfortable" or "playing pretend". User SoylentOrange wrote that his wife "found her job opportunities and career growth severely limited by the heavily patriarchal culture." That seems a very believable assertion to me, given what I have read about Japanese culture and seen in many industries outside of tech in Western cultures. User lozenge rephrased that as, "treating half the population as undeserving of a career". I have no idea if lozenge has any experience with Japanese culture. I read his statement as a summary of what SoylentOrange wrote. I remain unconvinced that the median Japanese man thinks that women are undeserving of a career. I welcome those with first hand experience to share more than anecdotes to convince me. To be accused of "playing pretend" when questioning hyperbole makes me reconsider commenting on HN at all.