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The EU is standardizing a 3MW charger. There are passenger vehicles that can charge 10%-80% at 250-300kW which is roughly equivalent to a gallon every minute an

The EU is standardizing a 3MW charger. There are passenger vehicles that can charge 10%-80% at 250-300kW which is roughly equivalent to a gallon every minute and a half to two minutes. Stopping for 20 minutes every two hours isn't as prphibitive as people like to imagine.

bdcravens 4y ago
I have one of those cars (Kia EV6), and when at a 350kW charger, I've never seen it go over 180kW. As for every 2 hours, that's only true once there are more fast chargers, especially on long stretches of freeway between major cities. I did a drive from Houston to San Diego, and we had to stop every 60-90 minutes, not because we needed it, but because the fastest charging locations (Electrify America) weren't close enough to skip any. Also, freeway range is far less than city range, due to wind resistance.
- daveguy 4y ago
  Wow. 400A * 440V delivery is 176kW. I didn't know that was already standard for commercial fillups. How long does it take to fill up with that? Is a "3MW charger" of GP a bunch of these at once? Or nominally a bunch of 2x these (350kW delivery) that typically only do 180kW for safety conditions or compatibility? I guess they are already being spec'd for "as fast as gas", now they just need to be as prevalent? (and work at a full 350kW, but that should come with time and improved standards)
  - Schroedingersat 4y ago
    There's a few different standards being discussed, with battery buffering being a major component in most proposals. Using 2 750kW bays for a truck was one proposal. There is a limitation imposed by the size and cooling capacity of the battery too, although that improves every year. The current marketing buzz phrase is 20 minutes to 80%. Daimler is proposing 3,000A and 1.25kV https://insideevs.com/news/535918/megawatt-charging-system-ev-trucks/ https://insideevs.com/news/535918/megawatt-charging-system-e...
Brian_K_White 4y ago
Stopping for 20 minutes every two hours is collossally ridiculously stupendously untennable overhead. You have to think in terms of fillups per hour or per minute that a standard gas station can process. If every one of those 1, 2, 5 minute fillups now takes 30 minutes to several hours, that translates into gas stations having to be parking lots and parking garages that can hold hundreds of cars, and a doubling or tripling in travel expenses and travel time. A million trips now need whole extra days and associated hotel stays and meals and generate a million extra junk boredom purchases at rest stops just because what else are you going do while waiting around for the charger? Anf this is all in the mythical world where high speed charging stations actually exist in all the places where gas stations currently exist, and all actually work at full speed, and your car is allowed to use any of them. That world is not even close to existing, and doesn't do the job even if it did.
- dzhiurgis 4y ago
  > gas stations having to be parking lots and parking garages that can hold hundreds of cars So like bucees?
  - Brian_K_White 4y ago
    Yes, except somehow crammed into every other street corner in every place that isn't Texas.
    - Schroedingersat 4y ago
      You've somehow stumbled onto the answer whilst thinking it's a problem. It's not that petrol stations will become car parks, car parks will become petrol stations. Chargers are not overly expensive, and very little driving consists of 500km road trips. Unlike petrol stations they require very little dedicated infrastructure and don't stink. The overwhelming majority of charging will happen over a regular 20-40A circuit in the places the car parks anyway. Truck stops will get a little larger, but will be competing with every cafe, tourist shop, and shopping mall on the route to get people to stop and charge there instead. The people that don't want to stop for a coffee will be able to use a 750kW fast charger which will take no longer than a petrol bowser.

bdcravens 4y ago

I have one of those cars (Kia EV6), and when at a 350kW charger, I've never seen it go over 180kW. As for every 2 hours, that's only true once there are more fast chargers, especially on long stretches of freeway between major cities. I did a drive from Houston to San Diego, and we had to stop every 60-90 minutes, not because we needed it, but because the fastest charging locations (Electrify America) weren't close enough to skip any. Also, freeway range is far less than city range, due to wind resistance.

daveguy 4y ago
Wow. 400A * 440V delivery is 176kW. I didn't know that was already standard for commercial fillups. How long does it take to fill up with that? Is a "3MW charger" of GP a bunch of these at once? Or nominally a bunch of 2x these (350kW delivery) that typically only do 180kW for safety conditions or compatibility? I guess they are already being spec'd for "as fast as gas", now they just need to be as prevalent? (and work at a full 350kW, but that should come with time and improved standards)
- Schroedingersat 4y ago
  There's a few different standards being discussed, with battery buffering being a major component in most proposals. Using 2 750kW bays for a truck was one proposal. There is a limitation imposed by the size and cooling capacity of the battery too, although that improves every year. The current marketing buzz phrase is 20 minutes to 80%. Daimler is proposing 3,000A and 1.25kV https://insideevs.com/news/535918/megawatt-charging-system-ev-trucks/ https://insideevs.com/news/535918/megawatt-charging-system-e...

Brian_K_White 4y ago

Stopping for 20 minutes every two hours is collossally ridiculously stupendously untennable overhead. You have to think in terms of fillups per hour or per minute that a standard gas station can process. If every one of those 1, 2, 5 minute fillups now takes 30 minutes to several hours, that translates into gas stations having to be parking lots and parking garages that can hold hundreds of cars, and a doubling or tripling in travel expenses and travel time. A million trips now need whole extra days and associated hotel stays and meals and generate a million extra junk boredom purchases at rest stops just because what else are you going do while waiting around for the charger? Anf this is all in the mythical world where high speed charging stations actually exist in all the places where gas stations currently exist, and all actually work at full speed, and your car is allowed to use any of them. That world is not even close to existing, and doesn't do the job even if it did.

dzhiurgis 4y ago
> gas stations having to be parking lots and parking garages that can hold hundreds of cars So like bucees?
- Brian_K_White 4y ago
  Yes, except somehow crammed into every other street corner in every place that isn't Texas.
  - Schroedingersat 4y ago
    You've somehow stumbled onto the answer whilst thinking it's a problem. It's not that petrol stations will become car parks, car parks will become petrol stations. Chargers are not overly expensive, and very little driving consists of 500km road trips. Unlike petrol stations they require very little dedicated infrastructure and don't stink. The overwhelming majority of charging will happen over a regular 20-40A circuit in the places the car parks anyway. Truck stops will get a little larger, but will be competing with every cafe, tourist shop, and shopping mall on the route to get people to stop and charge there instead. The people that don't want to stop for a coffee will be able to use a 750kW fast charger which will take no longer than a petrol bowser.