4 ms·

Odd that an all powerful god would choose text written in dying languages, easily susceptible to being lost or destroyed, as the preferred method of communicati

by mbfg 4y ago

Odd that an all powerful god would choose text written in dying languages, easily susceptible to being lost or destroyed, as the preferred method of communication.

expralitemonk78 4y ago
Thomas Paine, US founding father and deist, believed God's Word is the universe he created. From "The Age of Reason": It is only in the CREATION that all our ideas and conceptions of a word of God can unite. The Creation speaketh a universal language, independently of human speech or human language, multiplied and various as they be. It is an ever existing original, which every man can read. It cannot be forged; it cannot be counterfeited; it cannot be lost; it cannot be altered; it cannot be suppressed. It does not depend upon the will of man whether it shall be published or not; it publishes itself from one end of the earth to the other. It preaches to all nations and to all worlds; and this word of God reveals to man all that is necessary for man to know of God. Do we want to contemplate his power? We see it in the immensity of the creation. Do we want to contemplate his wisdom? We see it in the unchangeable order by which the incomprehensible Whole is governed. Do we want to contemplate his munificence? We see it in the abundance with which he fills the earth. Do we want to contemplate his mercy? We see it in his not withholding that abundance even from the unthankful. In fine, do we want to know what God is? Search not the book called the scripture, which any human hand might make, but the scripture called the Creation.
- mbfg 4y ago
  i wonder WHY he believed that, what evidence he had to think it was true?
mcswell 4y ago
He was doing the best he could, given Babel. The whole thing, going all the way back to the Fall, was necessarily and inescapably imperfect. Why would an omnipotent and omniscient God create such a mess, you ask? A lot of theological ink has been spilled on that question, but I think the consensus was that it was the best that could be done, given a (theological) concept of free will. The alternative was for God to create nothing at all, or at least nothing sentient.
- mbfg 4y ago
  that seems pretty antithetical to the concept of 'all powerful'. It doesn't seem like god is too concerned with free will anyway, at least according to the bible. If you read the story of pharoah and moses, it is clear that god tramps all over pharoah's free will. The story goes that after every plague, "and god hardened pharoah's heart"... which means pharaoh didn't have the free will to let the Israelites go, instead destined to suffer more carnage from the next plague. Even Babel shows that. God stopped the progress of a peaceful people who were learning, developing and progressing technologically, socially etc. It is probably one of the few examples from the bible where people were actually getting along. God put a stop to that.
  - bentley 4y ago
    > The story goes that after every plague, "and god hardened pharoah's heart" Not every plague. In the first five plagues, the language “Pharaoh’s heart hardened” or “Pharaoh hardened his heart” is used. As one would expect, Christians often use this to argue that the latter plagues resulting in loss of life would not have occurred had Pharaoh relented early on.
  - selfhoster11 4y ago
    > The story goes that after every plague, "and god hardened pharoah's heart"... which means pharaoh didn't have the free will to let the Israelites go I am familiar with an explanation for this: the "hardening" was just a reinforcement of what was already there. God didn't make the pharaoh's heart this way from the start. He was already disinclined to let the Israel go, as per his ability to choose freely. Hardening of the heart was just letting him dig in deeper in his conviction (or, if he chose differently, to distance himself away from the old position).
    - mbfg 4y ago
      Sounds like translating clear, obvious text to what people want the answer to be. Now explain Babel. "And they said, Go to, let us build us a city and a tower, whose top may reach unto heaven.... And the LORD came down to see the city and the tower, which the children of men builded. And the LORD said, Behold, the people is one, and they have all one language; and this they begin to do: and now nothing will be restrained from them, which they have imagined to do. Go to, let us go down, and there confound their language, that they may not understand one another's speech. So the LORD scattered them abroad from thence upon the face of all the earth: and they left off to build the city. Therefore is the name of it called Babel; because the LORD did there confound the language of all the earth: and from thence did the LORD scatter them abroad upon the face of all the earth. Genesis 11:1-9 " The crime? The people were one, and were making progress.
bandie91 4y ago
exactly. because it is not the writing which is the primary means of communication. they only suppose it since the invention of sola scriptura. churches with apostolic origin always claimed it's the personal communion and handing-on the faith among the faithful with the assured support from the Holy Spirit is the way.

by mbfg 4y ago

Odd that an all powerful god would choose text written in dying languages, easily susceptible to being lost or destroyed, as the preferred method of communication.

expralitemonk78 4y ago

Thomas Paine, US founding father and deist, believed God's Word is the universe he created. From "The Age of Reason": It is only in the CREATION that all our ideas and conceptions of a word of God can unite. The Creation speaketh a universal language, independently of human speech or human language, multiplied and various as they be. It is an ever existing original, which every man can read. It cannot be forged; it cannot be counterfeited; it cannot be lost; it cannot be altered; it cannot be suppressed. It does not depend upon the will of man whether it shall be published or not; it publishes itself from one end of the earth to the other. It preaches to all nations and to all worlds; and this word of God reveals to man all that is necessary for man to know of God. Do we want to contemplate his power? We see it in the immensity of the creation. Do we want to contemplate his wisdom? We see it in the unchangeable order by which the incomprehensible Whole is governed. Do we want to contemplate his munificence? We see it in the abundance with which he fills the earth. Do we want to contemplate his mercy? We see it in his not withholding that abundance even from the unthankful. In fine, do we want to know what God is? Search not the book called the scripture, which any human hand might make, but the scripture called the Creation.

mbfg 4y ago
i wonder WHY he believed that, what evidence he had to think it was true?

mcswell 4y ago

He was doing the best he could, given Babel. The whole thing, going all the way back to the Fall, was necessarily and inescapably imperfect. Why would an omnipotent and omniscient God create such a mess, you ask? A lot of theological ink has been spilled on that question, but I think the consensus was that it was the best that could be done, given a (theological) concept of free will. The alternative was for God to create nothing at all, or at least nothing sentient.

mbfg 4y ago
that seems pretty antithetical to the concept of 'all powerful'. It doesn't seem like god is too concerned with free will anyway, at least according to the bible. If you read the story of pharoah and moses, it is clear that god tramps all over pharoah's free will. The story goes that after every plague, "and god hardened pharoah's heart"... which means pharaoh didn't have the free will to let the Israelites go, instead destined to suffer more carnage from the next plague. Even Babel shows that. God stopped the progress of a peaceful people who were learning, developing and progressing technologically, socially etc. It is probably one of the few examples from the bible where people were actually getting along. God put a stop to that.
- bentley 4y ago
  > The story goes that after every plague, "and god hardened pharoah's heart" Not every plague. In the first five plagues, the language “Pharaoh’s heart hardened” or “Pharaoh hardened his heart” is used. As one would expect, Christians often use this to argue that the latter plagues resulting in loss of life would not have occurred had Pharaoh relented early on.
- selfhoster11 4y ago
  > The story goes that after every plague, "and god hardened pharoah's heart"... which means pharaoh didn't have the free will to let the Israelites go I am familiar with an explanation for this: the "hardening" was just a reinforcement of what was already there. God didn't make the pharaoh's heart this way from the start. He was already disinclined to let the Israel go, as per his ability to choose freely. Hardening of the heart was just letting him dig in deeper in his conviction (or, if he chose differently, to distance himself away from the old position).
  - mbfg 4y ago
    Sounds like translating clear, obvious text to what people want the answer to be. Now explain Babel. "And they said, Go to, let us build us a city and a tower, whose top may reach unto heaven.... And the LORD came down to see the city and the tower, which the children of men builded. And the LORD said, Behold, the people is one, and they have all one language; and this they begin to do: and now nothing will be restrained from them, which they have imagined to do. Go to, let us go down, and there confound their language, that they may not understand one another's speech. So the LORD scattered them abroad from thence upon the face of all the earth: and they left off to build the city. Therefore is the name of it called Babel; because the LORD did there confound the language of all the earth: and from thence did the LORD scatter them abroad upon the face of all the earth. Genesis 11:1-9 " The crime? The people were one, and were making progress.

bandie91 4y ago

exactly. because it is not the writing which is the primary means of communication. they only suppose it since the invention of sola scriptura. churches with apostolic origin always claimed it's the personal communion and handing-on the faith among the faithful with the assured support from the Holy Spirit is the way.