6 ms·

"GM expects to still be selling a lot of gas trucks and SUVs for years to come, likely in part because towing range in electric vehicles still sucks."

matt-attack 4y ago
I have to imagine that towing has the same impact on range for gas trucks as it does electric trucks. It's just that gas trucks don't mind stopping for fuel more often. If charging were as ubiquitous as gas stations, would the same ultimately be true of e-towing?
- albntomat0 4y ago
  What’s the current state of the art for electric charging times? There’s a big difference in frequent 5 minute stops for gas, where a 30 minute charge would be a deal breaker.
  - Tagbert 4y ago
    Hyundai/Kia EVs take 18 minutes for 0-80% charging. After 80% the charging rate slows down on most EVs as fast charging to 100% will cause more 'wear' on the battery. Most drivers do more frequent, but faster stops charging to 80%.
    - bdcravens 4y ago
      That assumes a 150kw+ charger, which aren't super common. I did a trip from Houston to San Diego in my Kia EV6, and those chargers (I believe Electrify America is the only one with those speeds) were roughly every 60-100 miles. Many areas you can't even find one close enough to not run out on the freeway (for instance, anywhere in Texas south of San Antonio). Slower level 3 chargers will typically take 3x as long, and the level 2 chargers that are common will typically take 5-8 hours.
      - travisporter 4y ago
        Interested in getting a ev myself looks like 800v egmp is thr way to go. Would be interested in seeinf how your trip went! Care to throw a blog up?
        bdcravens 4y ago
        I took pics at each charging stop, and do plan on doing a write up "soon" :-)
      - TheLoafOfBread 4y ago
        150kW+ is also super expensive. Charging Enyaq iv80 on Ionity in France and Italy for 0,79EUR/kWh for 1 hour so I can go 2 hours at 130km/h on highway to another Ionity charger. You can also try the slower charger, but it is really hit or miss regarding compatibility with your car. Yes, everything has CCS, but what's the point when you can't start charging session because there is some software incompatibility. Happened to me repeatedly.
- daveguy 4y ago
  You'd still need to solve the 5 min to full issue. Higher throughout 30 minutes fillups, even if they're ubiquitous would be a major negative. Particularly for lots of fillups. That may be some crazy 200A 440V standard (and battery tech to match) or battery swaps.
  - Schroedingersat 4y ago
    The EU is standardizing a 3MW charger. There are passenger vehicles that can charge 10%-80% at 250-300kW which is roughly equivalent to a gallon every minute and a half to two minutes. Stopping for 20 minutes every two hours isn't as prphibitive as people like to imagine.
    - bdcravens 4y ago
      I have one of those cars (Kia EV6), and when at a 350kW charger, I've never seen it go over 180kW. As for every 2 hours, that's only true once there are more fast chargers, especially on long stretches of freeway between major cities. I did a drive from Houston to San Diego, and we had to stop every 60-90 minutes, not because we needed it, but because the fastest charging locations (Electrify America) weren't close enough to skip any. Also, freeway range is far less than city range, due to wind resistance.
      - daveguy 4y ago
        Wow. 400A * 440V delivery is 176kW. I didn't know that was already standard for commercial fillups. How long does it take to fill up with that? Is a "3MW charger" of GP a bunch of these at once? Or nominally a bunch of 2x these (350kW delivery) that typically only do 180kW for safety conditions or compatibility? I guess they are already being spec'd for "as fast as gas", now they just need to be as prevalent? (and work at a full 350kW, but that should come with time and improved standards)
        Schroedingersat 4y ago
        There's a few different standards being discussed, with battery buffering being a major component in most proposals. Using 2 750kW bays for a truck was one proposal. There is a limitation imposed by the size and cooling capacity of the battery too, although that improves every year. The current marketing buzz phrase is 20 minutes to 80%. Daimler is proposing 3,000A and 1.25kV https://insideevs.com/news/535918/megawatt-charging-system-ev-trucks/ https://insideevs.com/news/535918/megawatt-charging-system-e...
- prennert 4y ago
  Sounds like the trailers could carry batteries. Then you could get to same range as without trailer.

matt-attack 4y ago

I have to imagine that towing has the same impact on range for gas trucks as it does electric trucks. It's just that gas trucks don't mind stopping for fuel more often. If charging were as ubiquitous as gas stations, would the same ultimately be true of e-towing?

albntomat0 4y ago
What’s the current state of the art for electric charging times? There’s a big difference in frequent 5 minute stops for gas, where a 30 minute charge would be a deal breaker.
- Tagbert 4y ago
  Hyundai/Kia EVs take 18 minutes for 0-80% charging. After 80% the charging rate slows down on most EVs as fast charging to 100% will cause more 'wear' on the battery. Most drivers do more frequent, but faster stops charging to 80%.
  - bdcravens 4y ago
    That assumes a 150kw+ charger, which aren't super common. I did a trip from Houston to San Diego in my Kia EV6, and those chargers (I believe Electrify America is the only one with those speeds) were roughly every 60-100 miles. Many areas you can't even find one close enough to not run out on the freeway (for instance, anywhere in Texas south of San Antonio). Slower level 3 chargers will typically take 3x as long, and the level 2 chargers that are common will typically take 5-8 hours.
    - travisporter 4y ago
      Interested in getting a ev myself looks like 800v egmp is thr way to go. Would be interested in seeinf how your trip went! Care to throw a blog up?
      - bdcravens 4y ago
        I took pics at each charging stop, and do plan on doing a write up "soon" :-)
    - TheLoafOfBread 4y ago
      150kW+ is also super expensive. Charging Enyaq iv80 on Ionity in France and Italy for 0,79EUR/kWh for 1 hour so I can go 2 hours at 130km/h on highway to another Ionity charger. You can also try the slower charger, but it is really hit or miss regarding compatibility with your car. Yes, everything has CCS, but what's the point when you can't start charging session because there is some software incompatibility. Happened to me repeatedly.
daveguy 4y ago
You'd still need to solve the 5 min to full issue. Higher throughout 30 minutes fillups, even if they're ubiquitous would be a major negative. Particularly for lots of fillups. That may be some crazy 200A 440V standard (and battery tech to match) or battery swaps.
- Schroedingersat 4y ago
  The EU is standardizing a 3MW charger. There are passenger vehicles that can charge 10%-80% at 250-300kW which is roughly equivalent to a gallon every minute and a half to two minutes. Stopping for 20 minutes every two hours isn't as prphibitive as people like to imagine.
  - bdcravens 4y ago
    I have one of those cars (Kia EV6), and when at a 350kW charger, I've never seen it go over 180kW. As for every 2 hours, that's only true once there are more fast chargers, especially on long stretches of freeway between major cities. I did a drive from Houston to San Diego, and we had to stop every 60-90 minutes, not because we needed it, but because the fastest charging locations (Electrify America) weren't close enough to skip any. Also, freeway range is far less than city range, due to wind resistance.
    - daveguy 4y ago
      Wow. 400A * 440V delivery is 176kW. I didn't know that was already standard for commercial fillups. How long does it take to fill up with that? Is a "3MW charger" of GP a bunch of these at once? Or nominally a bunch of 2x these (350kW delivery) that typically only do 180kW for safety conditions or compatibility? I guess they are already being spec'd for "as fast as gas", now they just need to be as prevalent? (and work at a full 350kW, but that should come with time and improved standards)
      - Schroedingersat 4y ago
        There's a few different standards being discussed, with battery buffering being a major component in most proposals. Using 2 750kW bays for a truck was one proposal. There is a limitation imposed by the size and cooling capacity of the battery too, although that improves every year. The current marketing buzz phrase is 20 minutes to 80%. Daimler is proposing 3,000A and 1.25kV https://insideevs.com/news/535918/megawatt-charging-system-ev-trucks/ https://insideevs.com/news/535918/megawatt-charging-system-e...
prennert 4y ago
Sounds like the trailers could carry batteries. Then you could get to same range as without trailer.