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Christian principles have maintained civilization for thousands of years. We have yet to see whether progressivism can maintain civilization. Is it arrogance t

by Empact 4y ago

Christian principles have maintained civilization for thousands of years. We have yet to see whether progressivism can maintain civilization. Is it arrogance to observe that, or to claim they are equivalently gibberish?

PrimeMcFly 4y ago
What an absurd statement. Civilization predates Christianity and there were numerous civilizations that had nothing to do with Christianity while it wasn't even known to them. Religion, all religion, has been a drag on progress, holding us back from where we should truly be.
- Empact 4y ago
  Which are you referring to? I’m referring to western civilization, which has been broadly Christian since Emperor Constantine (the 300s). > Religion, all religion, had been a drag on progress That’s a bold claim - are you sure that your fast-moving atheistic society would sustain itself? Prominent recent examples such as the USSR have failed spectacularly. Cosmopolitan societies like ancient Persia were overrun by the religious - ie they were outcompeted. Europe too, would have been overrun by Islam, had the Christian kingdoms not banded together in the middle ages. Certainly it’s possible, but the absence of evidence confirming it is stark to my eye.
  - yawaramin 4y ago
    The Western civilization in which most people wipe their butts with wet wipes after pooping, clogging up their drainage systems and leaving poop to dry in areas they couldn't reach? That one?
jqpabc123 4y ago
Christian principles have maintained civilization for thousands of years Your observation is false and easily proven so. Most of the world is not Christian. Civilization was maintained for thousands of years before the small Jewish and Christian minority even learned to write. But thanks for further proving my point.
- Empact 4y ago
  You’re responding to a different point than the one I made: it is true that western civilization has been Christian for roughly the past 2000 years. Certainly, other civilizations exist, before and elsewhere, but what proof do we have to demonstrate that other systems would have produced a comparable outcomes: in terms of progress, human development, etc.? And could they sustain themselves? Many cultures and religions have failed, been out competed, overrun, or collapsed. You’re free to assume you can create a better society on other principles. I will urge modesty, and refer you to Chesterton’s fence.
mcphage 4y ago
> Christian principles have maintained civilization for thousands of years. Even during these past 2,000 years (really less than that, given Christianity wasn't culturally dominant until several hundred years into that period), there were times where western civilization was carried by non-christian nations.
- Empact 4y ago
  Would you elaborate on what you’re referring to?

by Empact 4y ago

PrimeMcFly 4y ago

What an absurd statement. Civilization predates Christianity and there were numerous civilizations that had nothing to do with Christianity while it wasn't even known to them. Religion, all religion, has been a drag on progress, holding us back from where we should truly be.

Empact 4y ago
Which are you referring to? I’m referring to western civilization, which has been broadly Christian since Emperor Constantine (the 300s). > Religion, all religion, had been a drag on progress That’s a bold claim - are you sure that your fast-moving atheistic society would sustain itself? Prominent recent examples such as the USSR have failed spectacularly. Cosmopolitan societies like ancient Persia were overrun by the religious - ie they were outcompeted. Europe too, would have been overrun by Islam, had the Christian kingdoms not banded together in the middle ages. Certainly it’s possible, but the absence of evidence confirming it is stark to my eye.
- yawaramin 4y ago
  The Western civilization in which most people wipe their butts with wet wipes after pooping, clogging up their drainage systems and leaving poop to dry in areas they couldn't reach? That one?

jqpabc123 4y ago

Christian principles have maintained civilization for thousands of years Your observation is false and easily proven so. Most of the world is not Christian. Civilization was maintained for thousands of years before the small Jewish and Christian minority even learned to write. But thanks for further proving my point.

Empact 4y ago
You’re responding to a different point than the one I made: it is true that western civilization has been Christian for roughly the past 2000 years. Certainly, other civilizations exist, before and elsewhere, but what proof do we have to demonstrate that other systems would have produced a comparable outcomes: in terms of progress, human development, etc.? And could they sustain themselves? Many cultures and religions have failed, been out competed, overrun, or collapsed. You’re free to assume you can create a better society on other principles. I will urge modesty, and refer you to Chesterton’s fence.

mcphage 4y ago

> Christian principles have maintained civilization for thousands of years. Even during these past 2,000 years (really less than that, given Christianity wasn't culturally dominant until several hundred years into that period), there were times where western civilization was carried by non-christian nations.

Empact 4y ago
Would you elaborate on what you’re referring to?