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Future generations will replace you and your wife with those who think quite differently. If you feel that your values or culture are worth preserving, you have

Future generations will replace you and your wife with those who think quite differently. If you feel that your values or culture are worth preserving, you have kids. Observing someone else’s family and deciding that you don’t enjoy their kids is the saddest way to decide not to have a family, and indicates a deep lack of parental empathy. Your kids are nothing like other kids, for all values of “your”.

satvikpendem 4y ago
So what? I'm not going to live my life for future generations, we only have a limited amount of time in this universe and personally, I don't want to waste it having and raising children for the next couple of decades. I know what one would rebut with, that it's "your" kids and that there's a lot of fun in raising children, and that may be true, but again it is not something that appeals to me and many other people these days.
- nec4b 4y ago
  That fine as long as you realize somebody else's children will have to take care of you when you wont be able to. And if enough people would think the same way as you do, than there certainly wouldn't be enough children to take care of the elderly generations.
  - satvikpendem 4y ago
    Humean ethics don't seem to work particularly well in day-to-day society. If I have enough retirement savings, I will hire said children to take care of me either way, as there is no guarantee my own children would take care of me anyway.
    - nec4b 4y ago
      Of course you can pay them, but they still have to come from somewhere.
majewsky 4y ago
> Future generations will replace you and your wife with those who think quite differently. If that is so, how can people like this exist today, after hundreds of thousands of years of human evolution? Could it be that biological evolution alone does not predetermine one's desire to procreate?
- nec4b 4y ago
  No. Most of population has the desire for sex which leads procreation. It worked until we discovered contraception.
  - majewsky 4y ago
    Contraception is also available to people descended from very fertile parents, so again, the evolutionary argument does not hold.
    - nec4b 4y ago
      Of course it holds. Desire for sex was what was under evolutionary pressure which was a direct proxy for procreation. Because of contraception this link was severed. Only recently procreation is under evolutionary pressure.
WJW 4y ago
There are many ways to impart ones values onto society, children being only one of them. It's a very myopic view to think that your children will copy your values and/or culture without developing a mind of their own. In any case, observing other couples was only one of many reasons we decided on this. We made the decision as well-informed adults and whether you think it "sad" or not is not all that important to us.
- majikaja 4y ago
  I didn't like my kid before he existed that much either. Do you also write reviews of restaurants you haven't been to?
  - WJW 4y ago
    No, but if I ask my friends who have been to the restaurant about how it was, then I can glean enough information from their responses to gauge whether I want to go there as well. Even if they feel compelled by social mores to say it was all great, you can observe how they act in addition to the things they say. We decided that while no doubt others love their children very much, it wasn't a lifestyle we were interested in.
    - majikaja 4y ago
      Maybe try talking to older people, not just your currently stressed-out social group. All your posts seems to say is "we heard that kids are hard work in the short term so we decided not to have them".
      - satvikpendem 4y ago
        Why are parents so predisposed with trying to convince other people to have children as well, especially those who have made a decision not to, either way?
        majikaja 4y ago
hotpotamus 4y ago
I would say that deciding not to have a family by observing others' is a lot better than deciding not to have a family after direct experience with it.
archagon 4y ago
Not that I'm against having kids, but this argument is silly. If you feel that your values and culture are worth preserving, it's much more effective to write a book.
hsn915 4y ago
People should be allowed to self-select them selves out of reproduction. On the long term this is a eugenic pattern: it means the next generation will be more likely to have more people who value reproduction.

satvikpendem 4y ago

So what? I'm not going to live my life for future generations, we only have a limited amount of time in this universe and personally, I don't want to waste it having and raising children for the next couple of decades. I know what one would rebut with, that it's "your" kids and that there's a lot of fun in raising children, and that may be true, but again it is not something that appeals to me and many other people these days.

nec4b 4y ago
That fine as long as you realize somebody else's children will have to take care of you when you wont be able to. And if enough people would think the same way as you do, than there certainly wouldn't be enough children to take care of the elderly generations.
- satvikpendem 4y ago
  Humean ethics don't seem to work particularly well in day-to-day society. If I have enough retirement savings, I will hire said children to take care of me either way, as there is no guarantee my own children would take care of me anyway.
  - nec4b 4y ago
    Of course you can pay them, but they still have to come from somewhere.

majewsky 4y ago

> Future generations will replace you and your wife with those who think quite differently. If that is so, how can people like this exist today, after hundreds of thousands of years of human evolution? Could it be that biological evolution alone does not predetermine one's desire to procreate?

nec4b 4y ago
No. Most of population has the desire for sex which leads procreation. It worked until we discovered contraception.
- majewsky 4y ago
  Contraception is also available to people descended from very fertile parents, so again, the evolutionary argument does not hold.
  - nec4b 4y ago
    Of course it holds. Desire for sex was what was under evolutionary pressure which was a direct proxy for procreation. Because of contraception this link was severed. Only recently procreation is under evolutionary pressure.

WJW 4y ago

There are many ways to impart ones values onto society, children being only one of them. It's a very myopic view to think that your children will copy your values and/or culture without developing a mind of their own. In any case, observing other couples was only one of many reasons we decided on this. We made the decision as well-informed adults and whether you think it "sad" or not is not all that important to us.

majikaja 4y ago
I didn't like my kid before he existed that much either. Do you also write reviews of restaurants you haven't been to?
- WJW 4y ago
  No, but if I ask my friends who have been to the restaurant about how it was, then I can glean enough information from their responses to gauge whether I want to go there as well. Even if they feel compelled by social mores to say it was all great, you can observe how they act in addition to the things they say. We decided that while no doubt others love their children very much, it wasn't a lifestyle we were interested in.
  - majikaja 4y ago
    Maybe try talking to older people, not just your currently stressed-out social group. All your posts seems to say is "we heard that kids are hard work in the short term so we decided not to have them".
    - satvikpendem 4y ago
      Why are parents so predisposed with trying to convince other people to have children as well, especially those who have made a decision not to, either way?
      - majikaja 4y ago

hotpotamus 4y ago

I would say that deciding not to have a family by observing others' is a lot better than deciding not to have a family after direct experience with it.

archagon 4y ago

Not that I'm against having kids, but this argument is silly. If you feel that your values and culture are worth preserving, it's much more effective to write a book.

hsn915 4y ago

People should be allowed to self-select them selves out of reproduction. On the long term this is a eugenic pattern: it means the next generation will be more likely to have more people who value reproduction.