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People in Ukraine had reasons to break out of Jail of Nations, but I see no single reason to join RF instead of EU and NATO. Most Slavic nations are already in

by drran 4y ago

People in Ukraine had reasons to break out of Jail of Nations, but I see no single reason to join RF instead of EU and NATO. Most Slavic nations are already in EU, except Ukraine and Belarus. Why Ukraine should join former Golden Horde?

morpheos137 4y ago
How deluded by propaganda do people need to believe that Russia is the former Golden Horde. Here is some education. Ukraine and Russia share a common, ethnic, linguistic and cultural heritage. They also share a common political heritage with the name of the country meaning borderland (of Russia). In fact Ukraine was no more an independent country than Wales until about 30 years ago. While Russia economically recovered in the early 2000s ukraine stagnated, in part due to pervasive corruption. Finally in 2014 the elected president of Ukraine was illegally driven out by a mob fired up by pie in the sky hopes of prosperity in the EU / Nato fold. Now almost a decade later Ukraine is neither in the EU nor NATO and its territory has been ravaged by war. Meanwhile a former comedian whose first language is Russian is president. Is this what winning looks like?
- jcranmer 4y ago
  > While Russia economically recovered in the early 2000s ukraine stagnated, in part due to pervasive corruption. That economic recovery was largely driven by a commodities boom, and the economic benefits of such are poorly distributed among Russians. That is to say, when you look at the poorer, rural sections of the country, the Ukrainians have done much better post-USSR than Russians have. > Is this what winning looks like? Well, in almost a year of war, Russia has managed to only temporarily capture one major city, failed to capture two more major cities (one of which is literally a day's march away from the border, and the other one only thrice as far). It also lost a flagship (to someone who doesn't really have a navy!), and the pride project in Crimea was put out of commission by Ukraine and still hasn't been restored for satisfactory military usage. Let's not forget the sheer number of officers and seasoned soldiers who are now dead. In wider political ramifications, the non-aligned neighbors near it have suddenly decided that it is in their interest to join an opposing alliance. Russia's proxies in other countries have been undercut, but especially in Ukraine where pro-Russia sentiment has collapsed from about on par with pro-Western sentiment to near nonexistence. The largest customer of its primary export is planning on never buying from them ever again. In contrast to all of that, yes, Ukraine is winning.
- Mikeb85 4y ago
  I see Russian propaganda is evolving... Ukrainian language is closer to Czech and Slovak than to Russian. Ukrainian culture is closer to Polish and Slovak culture than Russian. > They also share a common political heritage with the name of the country meaning borderland (of Russia) "Kraj" means land or country. Borderland would be "O-krajina". Meanwhile Ukraine is "U-kraijina". Cyrillic О vs У. The first historic mention of "Ukrajina" also predates Moscow and the Russian Empire. And you want to talk democracy, Ukraine has had 5 presidents since Putin came to power. Versus 1 in Belarus and 1.5 in Russia (Medvedev counts as half). > Now almost a decade later Ukraine is neither in the EU nor NATO and its territory has been ravaged by war. That was Russia's doing not Ukraine's. This is some serious blame the victim mentality. No one made Russia invade. And if Ukraine would rather suffer through a war than Russian occupation maybe that should be a sign of just how shitty Russia is... Sorry but no one wants to be in the Russian world. Telling that your only allies are North Korea and Iran and that Lukashenko has even low-key sabotaged your invasion and refused to directly help... I'm currently in the Czech Republic and I can tell you, everyone here would go to war before becoming a Russian sattelite again... Since joining the EU, this country has become quite rich. Higher GDP per capita and wages than Portugal. Almost at Spain's level. Versus Russia, Ukraine and Belarus being very poor... As for sentiment on Ukraine, there's Ukrainian flags absolutely everywhere. Ukrainian people too. They're even about to elect a former general and NATO Chairman as president...
  - inkyoto 4y ago
    With all due respect, historical and linguistic assertions are borderline nonsense. > Ukrainian language is closer to Czech and Slovak than to Russian. Ukrainian culture is closer to Polish and Slovak culture than Russian. Which Ukrainian language? Western Ukrainian is closer to Polish due to a historical affiliation with and influence of the medieval Polish Kingdom first and the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth later. Eastern Ukrainian is most likely closest to the Ruthenian language. Both are independent and separate developments from the Russian language. Modern Standard Ukrainian is a fairly recent linguistic development and is an amalgamation of multiple branches of Ukrainian languages that took place throughout the course of the 19th century as the result of the almost clandestine work of many Ukrainian scholars during the times of the late Russian Empire. > "Kraj" means land or country. Borderland would be "O-krajina". Meanwhile Ukraine is "U-kraijina". Cyrillic О vs У. «kraj» has descended from a Proto-Slavic of *krajь. It can mean «region», «country» or «land», but it can also mean «outskirt», «edge» or «fringe». See https://en.m.wiktionary.org/wiki/край https://en.m.wiktionary.org/wiki/край for the explanation. "O-krajina" that you are citing can mean «fringe» or «edge» but not «borderland». Semantically, «у» is a preposition that governs the genitive noun case and is translated as «at» or «by» into English in this and similar contexts, which means that «Ukraine» can also be translated as «at the edge/fringe/outskirt» or «by the edge», and such a meaning is shared across multiple East Slavic languages. See «Old East Slavic» section, the first meaning in https://en.m.wiktionary.org/wiki/у https://en.m.wiktionary.org/wiki/у for the explanation. Whether «Ukraine» means «in the land/country» or «at/by the edge/fringe» has been hotly debated (oftentimes fuelled by nationalistic or political rhetoric from both, Russian and Ukrainian, sides) with no conclusive agreement having ever been reached. > The first historic mention of "Ukrajina" also predates Moscow and the Russian Empire. The historical name of Ukraine is «Ruthenia» in Western sources as it was the name it was known by to Papal legates in early mediaeval times, and is «Princedom (kingdom in English sources) of Galicia–Volhynia» in local sources. When exactly «Ukraina» emerged as the current name is still not very clear. Princedom/Kingdom of Galicia–Volhynia emerged after the collapse of the Kievan Rus' in the aftermath of the Mongolian invasion and existed for slightly over a century until the Polish Kingdom forcibly absorbed it into Catholic Poland. Moscow was founded in 1147 and was a backwater town for quite some time, whereas Princedom of Galicia–Volhynia came into existence almost a century later. Both existed in parallel and independently of each other. These are plain and bland historical and linguistic facts, and there is no need to distort them with homebrewn armchair theories.
- drran 4y ago
  > Ukraine and Russia share a common, ethnic, linguistic and cultural heritage. Ukraine is the mix of Slavs and historic Russians (русичи) (from the town of Russia, now Old Russa, on Russia river, now Porussia river). "Russians" from Russian Federations are members of Russian orthodox church or citizens of Russian Federation. There was a split between "Polish" (Catholics) and "Russian" (Eastern Orthodox) members in Ukraine a few centuries ago. > They also share a common political heritage with the name of the country meaning borderland (of Russia). Nope. Ukraine is the original Russia, now called Kievan Rus by RF. "Ukraine" share same word root with such words as "ukryttia" (shelter), "ukriplennia" (reinforced structure). Modern equivalent world for "ukraine" is "ukripraion" (reinforced area of defense). Poland built multiple areas of defense ("ukraines") on their eastern border, so the whole area got name "Ukraine". > In fact Ukraine was no more an independent country than Wales until about 30 years ago. Bohdan Khmelnytskyi was Hetman of Ukraine since 1654, almost century before Russian Empire was created in 1721.
  - morpheos137 4y ago
    Ukrainian ethnogenesis is happening in real time. If that is worth fighting for is up to Ukrainians and their native Russian speaking president. However to portray it as something with a long history is fundamentally dishonest. It is somewhat similar to the American revolution where people with common language and history rebelled against their parent nation and over time formed a new national identity of their own. Bohdan Khmelynytski was a medieval peasant warlord. He can only be considered a founder of the Ukrainian nation in retrospect. At his time the main mission of his calvary was slaughtering poles and jews unfortunate enough to live in territory he controlled, as a kind of precursor to NAZI death squads several centuries later. It is a historical fact that Ukraine and Russia are two branches of the same tree and are essentially the same ethnicity speaking different but mostly mutually intelligible dialects. I mean Zelensky (who Khmelnytskyi would have killed) speaks Russian as his first language.
  - inkyoto 4y ago
    > Nope. Ukraine is the original Russia, now called Kievan Rus by RF. False. As per historical findings, the current scientific consensus is that the origins of the Rus people (who ruled Kyiv/Kiev/Kievan Rus') are traced back to Norsemen from modern Sweden. As early as from Hellquist (published in 1922), p. 668 Ryssland, in Swedish (https://archive.org/details/svensketymologis00hell/page/668/mode/2up https://archive.org/details/svensketymologis00hell/page/668/...): ryss (i.e. Rus'), folkslagsnamn, i ä. sv. ofta även rysse såsom alltjämt i Finnland; ännu Karl XII skriver rytzen, fsv. rysser, ryz, ryze, ryza — fno. ruzzar plur., da. russer, mlty. ruze, fhty. ruz(o), mhty. ruz (ty. russe) o. riuze (kvarlevan de i namnet på det forna tyska småfursten dömet Reuss, efter tillnamnet på regenthusets stamfader) — samtliga hty. former med sljud; av slav. rusi el. rus (enl. Ekblom kvar i en mängd ortnamn i guvernementet Novgorod m. m.; jfr ry. russkij, plur. russkije), varav mgrek. ros. Enl. vanlig uppfattning från fin. Ruolsi, Sverige, svensk, jfr ruoisalainen, svensk, i sin tur sannol., enl. Thomsen m. fl., till fsv. röper, rodd, ledung m. m., el. det därmed identiska fsv. Röpin, Roslagen o. angränsande delar av östkusten, varifrån en stor del vikingar o. nylnggare kommo. — De finska o. ryska formerna meds visa hän på en fsv. sammans. röp(r)s- (jfr Roslagen, ro spigg, ävensom Rrate Ant. tidskr. XX. 3: 30 f.) växl. med röpa(r)- i fsv. röparum, röparaitter. — Ryssland var in på 1000-t. ett svenskt skatteland. — Helt annorlunda t. ex. Knauer senast i IF 31: 67 f.: av ett Rusa, forntida namn på Volga; alltså: Volga-folk (jfr under bulgar). Osannolikt. — Härtill: Ryssland, fsv. Ryzaland. — Jfr ryss lä der. Abbreviations are difficult to read, but this appears to be a recap: (Swedish): «… av slav. rusi el. rus (enl. Ekblom kvar i en mängd ortnamn i guvernementet Novgorod m. m.; jfr ry. russkij, plur. russkije), varav mgrek. ros. Enl. vanlig uppfattning från fin. Ruolsi, Sverige, svensk, jfr ruoisalainen, svensk, i sin tur sannol., enl. Thomsen m. fl., till fsv. röper, rodd, ledung m. m., el. det därmed identiska fsv. Röpin, Roslagen o. angränsande delar av östkusten, varifrån en stor del vikingar o. nylnggare kommo …» (English): «… of Slavic Rusi and likewise Rus (according to Ekblom remains in a number of place names in the governorate of Novgorod, etc.; cf. ry. russkij, plur. russkije), of which mgr. Rose. According to common perception from Finnish «Ruolsi», Sweden, Swedish, cf. «ruoisalainen», Swedish, in turn sannol., acc. Thomsen et al., to fsv. roper, rowing, lead, etc., etc. the thus identical fsv. Röpin, Roslagen and neighboring parts of the east coast, from where a large number of Vikings and newcomers came …». «neighboring parts of the east coast, from where a large number of Vikings and newcomers came…» appears to be the cinch. > "Ukraine" share same word root with such words as "ukryttia" (shelter), "ukriplennia" (reinforced structure). Modern equivalent world for "ukraine" is "ukripraion" (reinforced area of defense). Poland built multiple areas of defense ("ukraines") on their eastern border, so the whole area got name "Ukraine". Also false. Existing historical and linguistic evidence do not support it: 1. From Tymchenko, E. K., editor (published in 1930, https://archive.org/details/staroukr2/page/474/mode/1up?view=theater https://archive.org/details/staroukr2/page/474/mode/1up?view...), “вкраина; украина”, in Історичний словник українського язика [Historical Dictionary of the Ukrainian Language] (in Ukrainian), volume 1: notebook 1: А – Г, Kharkiv, Kyiv: State Publishing House of Ukraine, page 262: «ОУКРАИНА ж. (1) (погранична територія) окраїна: ажь богь дасть по(д)ближаємься та(м) по(д) оукраини к тьімь нашимь паньствомь и огьтоуль дасть богь виправимь и шлємь до тебе нши(х) пословь о прия(з)ни и о мироу (б. м. н., 1496 ПДСВВ)» (dated back to the year of 1496, an approximate translation): «ОУКРАИНА» – (1) (a border territory – «погранична територія») «the fringe» / «outskirts» / «the edge» («окраїна»): as God giveth [a chance] to approach «the edge» / «the fringe» of [the land] («оукраини») of those of our overloards (note the use of a Polish word – «паньствомь») and [огьтоуль (?)] giveth to God to remedie (remedy, fix) and [giveth] the helm to you to hear our words (or, speech) of accceptance and peace». 2. From Hrynchyshyn, D. H., editor (published in 1978, https://archive.org/details/tymch1930/page/262/mode/1up?view=theater https://archive.org/details/tymch1930/page/262/mode/1up?view...), “оукраина”, in Словник староукраїнської мови XIV–XV ст. [Dictionary of the Old Ukrainian Language of the 14ᵗʰ–15ᵗʰ cc.] (in Ukrainian), volume 2: Н – Ѳ, Kyiv: Naukova Dumka, page 474: ВКРАИНА, рж. Див. Украйна. XVI. Ино тими рази на вкраинахь оть татар многим таковая ся пригода и шкода пригожаєть Арх. ЮЗР. VIII, IV, 172 (1501). – (an approximate translation) «on those occasions at fringes (borderlands / edges – «вкраинахь») will be becoming useful and [шкода] will become useful (?)». The context is incomplete, therefore it is difficult to make sense out of it. The reference dates back to 1501. ХУІI. Не єдно царство, князетво, земля, вкраина, повіть, вь жалоеньїх и лідво значньїхь руинахь зостають поверженьї Ак. ЗР. V, 141 (1667) – (an approximate translation) «Not a single kingdom, or a princedom, or a land, or a borderland («вкраина»), повіть (?), the granted [people] and important people are found defeated». The reference dates back to 1667.
- dang 4y ago
  Please don't take HN threads further into nationalistic flamewar, regardless of how wrong someone is or you feel they are. This hell is not what this site is for, and destroys what it is for. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
dang 4y ago
We detached this subthread from https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34474658 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34474658. I've also banned your account for repeatedly abusing HN with nationalistic flamewar. Please see https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34492895 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34492895. The flamewar you started (and perpetuated) here is among the worst I've ever seen. That's seriously not ok, regardless of how right your cause is or you feel it is.

by drran 4y ago

morpheos137 4y ago

How deluded by propaganda do people need to believe that Russia is the former Golden Horde. Here is some education. Ukraine and Russia share a common, ethnic, linguistic and cultural heritage. They also share a common political heritage with the name of the country meaning borderland (of Russia). In fact Ukraine was no more an independent country than Wales until about 30 years ago. While Russia economically recovered in the early 2000s ukraine stagnated, in part due to pervasive corruption. Finally in 2014 the elected president of Ukraine was illegally driven out by a mob fired up by pie in the sky hopes of prosperity in the EU / Nato fold. Now almost a decade later Ukraine is neither in the EU nor NATO and its territory has been ravaged by war. Meanwhile a former comedian whose first language is Russian is president. Is this what winning looks like?

jcranmer 4y ago
> While Russia economically recovered in the early 2000s ukraine stagnated, in part due to pervasive corruption. That economic recovery was largely driven by a commodities boom, and the economic benefits of such are poorly distributed among Russians. That is to say, when you look at the poorer, rural sections of the country, the Ukrainians have done much better post-USSR than Russians have. > Is this what winning looks like? Well, in almost a year of war, Russia has managed to only temporarily capture one major city, failed to capture two more major cities (one of which is literally a day's march away from the border, and the other one only thrice as far). It also lost a flagship (to someone who doesn't really have a navy!), and the pride project in Crimea was put out of commission by Ukraine and still hasn't been restored for satisfactory military usage. Let's not forget the sheer number of officers and seasoned soldiers who are now dead. In wider political ramifications, the non-aligned neighbors near it have suddenly decided that it is in their interest to join an opposing alliance. Russia's proxies in other countries have been undercut, but especially in Ukraine where pro-Russia sentiment has collapsed from about on par with pro-Western sentiment to near nonexistence. The largest customer of its primary export is planning on never buying from them ever again. In contrast to all of that, yes, Ukraine is winning.
Mikeb85 4y ago
I see Russian propaganda is evolving... Ukrainian language is closer to Czech and Slovak than to Russian. Ukrainian culture is closer to Polish and Slovak culture than Russian. > They also share a common political heritage with the name of the country meaning borderland (of Russia) "Kraj" means land or country. Borderland would be "O-krajina". Meanwhile Ukraine is "U-kraijina". Cyrillic О vs У. The first historic mention of "Ukrajina" also predates Moscow and the Russian Empire. And you want to talk democracy, Ukraine has had 5 presidents since Putin came to power. Versus 1 in Belarus and 1.5 in Russia (Medvedev counts as half). > Now almost a decade later Ukraine is neither in the EU nor NATO and its territory has been ravaged by war. That was Russia's doing not Ukraine's. This is some serious blame the victim mentality. No one made Russia invade. And if Ukraine would rather suffer through a war than Russian occupation maybe that should be a sign of just how shitty Russia is... Sorry but no one wants to be in the Russian world. Telling that your only allies are North Korea and Iran and that Lukashenko has even low-key sabotaged your invasion and refused to directly help... I'm currently in the Czech Republic and I can tell you, everyone here would go to war before becoming a Russian sattelite again... Since joining the EU, this country has become quite rich. Higher GDP per capita and wages than Portugal. Almost at Spain's level. Versus Russia, Ukraine and Belarus being very poor... As for sentiment on Ukraine, there's Ukrainian flags absolutely everywhere. Ukrainian people too. They're even about to elect a former general and NATO Chairman as president...
- inkyoto 4y ago
  With all due respect, historical and linguistic assertions are borderline nonsense. > Ukrainian language is closer to Czech and Slovak than to Russian. Ukrainian culture is closer to Polish and Slovak culture than Russian. Which Ukrainian language? Western Ukrainian is closer to Polish due to a historical affiliation with and influence of the medieval Polish Kingdom first and the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth later. Eastern Ukrainian is most likely closest to the Ruthenian language. Both are independent and separate developments from the Russian language. Modern Standard Ukrainian is a fairly recent linguistic development and is an amalgamation of multiple branches of Ukrainian languages that took place throughout the course of the 19th century as the result of the almost clandestine work of many Ukrainian scholars during the times of the late Russian Empire. > "Kraj" means land or country. Borderland would be "O-krajina". Meanwhile Ukraine is "U-kraijina". Cyrillic О vs У. «kraj» has descended from a Proto-Slavic of *krajь. It can mean «region», «country» or «land», but it can also mean «outskirt», «edge» or «fringe». See https://en.m.wiktionary.org/wiki/край https://en.m.wiktionary.org/wiki/край for the explanation. "O-krajina" that you are citing can mean «fringe» or «edge» but not «borderland». Semantically, «у» is a preposition that governs the genitive noun case and is translated as «at» or «by» into English in this and similar contexts, which means that «Ukraine» can also be translated as «at the edge/fringe/outskirt» or «by the edge», and such a meaning is shared across multiple East Slavic languages. See «Old East Slavic» section, the first meaning in https://en.m.wiktionary.org/wiki/у https://en.m.wiktionary.org/wiki/у for the explanation. Whether «Ukraine» means «in the land/country» or «at/by the edge/fringe» has been hotly debated (oftentimes fuelled by nationalistic or political rhetoric from both, Russian and Ukrainian, sides) with no conclusive agreement having ever been reached. > The first historic mention of "Ukrajina" also predates Moscow and the Russian Empire. The historical name of Ukraine is «Ruthenia» in Western sources as it was the name it was known by to Papal legates in early mediaeval times, and is «Princedom (kingdom in English sources) of Galicia–Volhynia» in local sources. When exactly «Ukraina» emerged as the current name is still not very clear. Princedom/Kingdom of Galicia–Volhynia emerged after the collapse of the Kievan Rus' in the aftermath of the Mongolian invasion and existed for slightly over a century until the Polish Kingdom forcibly absorbed it into Catholic Poland. Moscow was founded in 1147 and was a backwater town for quite some time, whereas Princedom of Galicia–Volhynia came into existence almost a century later. Both existed in parallel and independently of each other. These are plain and bland historical and linguistic facts, and there is no need to distort them with homebrewn armchair theories.
drran 4y ago
> Ukraine and Russia share a common, ethnic, linguistic and cultural heritage. Ukraine is the mix of Slavs and historic Russians (русичи) (from the town of Russia, now Old Russa, on Russia river, now Porussia river). "Russians" from Russian Federations are members of Russian orthodox church or citizens of Russian Federation. There was a split between "Polish" (Catholics) and "Russian" (Eastern Orthodox) members in Ukraine a few centuries ago. > They also share a common political heritage with the name of the country meaning borderland (of Russia). Nope. Ukraine is the original Russia, now called Kievan Rus by RF. "Ukraine" share same word root with such words as "ukryttia" (shelter), "ukriplennia" (reinforced structure). Modern equivalent world for "ukraine" is "ukripraion" (reinforced area of defense). Poland built multiple areas of defense ("ukraines") on their eastern border, so the whole area got name "Ukraine". > In fact Ukraine was no more an independent country than Wales until about 30 years ago. Bohdan Khmelnytskyi was Hetman of Ukraine since 1654, almost century before Russian Empire was created in 1721.
- morpheos137 4y ago
  Ukrainian ethnogenesis is happening in real time. If that is worth fighting for is up to Ukrainians and their native Russian speaking president. However to portray it as something with a long history is fundamentally dishonest. It is somewhat similar to the American revolution where people with common language and history rebelled against their parent nation and over time formed a new national identity of their own. Bohdan Khmelynytski was a medieval peasant warlord. He can only be considered a founder of the Ukrainian nation in retrospect. At his time the main mission of his calvary was slaughtering poles and jews unfortunate enough to live in territory he controlled, as a kind of precursor to NAZI death squads several centuries later. It is a historical fact that Ukraine and Russia are two branches of the same tree and are essentially the same ethnicity speaking different but mostly mutually intelligible dialects. I mean Zelensky (who Khmelnytskyi would have killed) speaks Russian as his first language.
- inkyoto 4y ago
  > Nope. Ukraine is the original Russia, now called Kievan Rus by RF. False. As per historical findings, the current scientific consensus is that the origins of the Rus people (who ruled Kyiv/Kiev/Kievan Rus') are traced back to Norsemen from modern Sweden. As early as from Hellquist (published in 1922), p. 668 Ryssland, in Swedish (https://archive.org/details/svensketymologis00hell/page/668/mode/2up https://archive.org/details/svensketymologis00hell/page/668/...): ryss (i.e. Rus'), folkslagsnamn, i ä. sv. ofta även rysse såsom alltjämt i Finnland; ännu Karl XII skriver rytzen, fsv. rysser, ryz, ryze, ryza — fno. ruzzar plur., da. russer, mlty. ruze, fhty. ruz(o), mhty. ruz (ty. russe) o. riuze (kvarlevan de i namnet på det forna tyska småfursten dömet Reuss, efter tillnamnet på regenthusets stamfader) — samtliga hty. former med sljud; av slav. rusi el. rus (enl. Ekblom kvar i en mängd ortnamn i guvernementet Novgorod m. m.; jfr ry. russkij, plur. russkije), varav mgrek. ros. Enl. vanlig uppfattning från fin. Ruolsi, Sverige, svensk, jfr ruoisalainen, svensk, i sin tur sannol., enl. Thomsen m. fl., till fsv. röper, rodd, ledung m. m., el. det därmed identiska fsv. Röpin, Roslagen o. angränsande delar av östkusten, varifrån en stor del vikingar o. nylnggare kommo. — De finska o. ryska formerna meds visa hän på en fsv. sammans. röp(r)s- (jfr Roslagen, ro spigg, ävensom Rrate Ant. tidskr. XX. 3: 30 f.) växl. med röpa(r)- i fsv. röparum, röparaitter. — Ryssland var in på 1000-t. ett svenskt skatteland. — Helt annorlunda t. ex. Knauer senast i IF 31: 67 f.: av ett Rusa, forntida namn på Volga; alltså: Volga-folk (jfr under bulgar). Osannolikt. — Härtill: Ryssland, fsv. Ryzaland. — Jfr ryss lä der. Abbreviations are difficult to read, but this appears to be a recap: (Swedish): «… av slav. rusi el. rus (enl. Ekblom kvar i en mängd ortnamn i guvernementet Novgorod m. m.; jfr ry. russkij, plur. russkije), varav mgrek. ros. Enl. vanlig uppfattning från fin. Ruolsi, Sverige, svensk, jfr ruoisalainen, svensk, i sin tur sannol., enl. Thomsen m. fl., till fsv. röper, rodd, ledung m. m., el. det därmed identiska fsv. Röpin, Roslagen o. angränsande delar av östkusten, varifrån en stor del vikingar o. nylnggare kommo …» (English): «… of Slavic Rusi and likewise Rus (according to Ekblom remains in a number of place names in the governorate of Novgorod, etc.; cf. ry. russkij, plur. russkije), of which mgr. Rose. According to common perception from Finnish «Ruolsi», Sweden, Swedish, cf. «ruoisalainen», Swedish, in turn sannol., acc. Thomsen et al., to fsv. roper, rowing, lead, etc., etc. the thus identical fsv. Röpin, Roslagen and neighboring parts of the east coast, from where a large number of Vikings and newcomers came …». «neighboring parts of the east coast, from where a large number of Vikings and newcomers came…» appears to be the cinch. > "Ukraine" share same word root with such words as "ukryttia" (shelter), "ukriplennia" (reinforced structure). Modern equivalent world for "ukraine" is "ukripraion" (reinforced area of defense). Poland built multiple areas of defense ("ukraines") on their eastern border, so the whole area got name "Ukraine". Also false. Existing historical and linguistic evidence do not support it: 1. From Tymchenko, E. K., editor (published in 1930, https://archive.org/details/staroukr2/page/474/mode/1up?view=theater https://archive.org/details/staroukr2/page/474/mode/1up?view...), “вкраина; украина”, in Історичний словник українського язика [Historical Dictionary of the Ukrainian Language] (in Ukrainian), volume 1: notebook 1: А – Г, Kharkiv, Kyiv: State Publishing House of Ukraine, page 262: «ОУКРАИНА ж. (1) (погранична територія) окраїна: ажь богь дасть по(д)ближаємься та(м) по(д) оукраини к тьімь нашимь паньствомь и огьтоуль дасть богь виправимь и шлємь до тебе нши(х) пословь о прия(з)ни и о мироу (б. м. н., 1496 ПДСВВ)» (dated back to the year of 1496, an approximate translation): «ОУКРАИНА» – (1) (a border territory – «погранична територія») «the fringe» / «outskirts» / «the edge» («окраїна»): as God giveth [a chance] to approach «the edge» / «the fringe» of [the land] («оукраини») of those of our overloards (note the use of a Polish word – «паньствомь») and [огьтоуль (?)] giveth to God to remedie (remedy, fix) and [giveth] the helm to you to hear our words (or, speech) of accceptance and peace». 2. From Hrynchyshyn, D. H., editor (published in 1978, https://archive.org/details/tymch1930/page/262/mode/1up?view=theater https://archive.org/details/tymch1930/page/262/mode/1up?view...), “оукраина”, in Словник староукраїнської мови XIV–XV ст. [Dictionary of the Old Ukrainian Language of the 14ᵗʰ–15ᵗʰ cc.] (in Ukrainian), volume 2: Н – Ѳ, Kyiv: Naukova Dumka, page 474: ВКРАИНА, рж. Див. Украйна. XVI. Ино тими рази на вкраинахь оть татар многим таковая ся пригода и шкода пригожаєть Арх. ЮЗР. VIII, IV, 172 (1501). – (an approximate translation) «on those occasions at fringes (borderlands / edges – «вкраинахь») will be becoming useful and [шкода] will become useful (?)». The context is incomplete, therefore it is difficult to make sense out of it. The reference dates back to 1501. ХУІI. Не єдно царство, князетво, земля, вкраина, повіть, вь жалоеньїх и лідво значньїхь руинахь зостають поверженьї Ак. ЗР. V, 141 (1667) – (an approximate translation) «Not a single kingdom, or a princedom, or a land, or a borderland («вкраина»), повіть (?), the granted [people] and important people are found defeated». The reference dates back to 1667.
dang 4y ago
Please don't take HN threads further into nationalistic flamewar, regardless of how wrong someone is or you feel they are. This hell is not what this site is for, and destroys what it is for. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

dang 4y ago

We detached this subthread from https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34474658 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34474658. I've also banned your account for repeatedly abusing HN with nationalistic flamewar. Please see https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34492895 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34492895. The flamewar you started (and perpetuated) here is among the worst I've ever seen. That's seriously not ok, regardless of how right your cause is or you feel it is.