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>I don't know why people try and make it more complicated than that. Given that the author of the term wrote a whole book about it rather than just tweeting th

by Groxx 4y ago

>I don't know why people try and make it more complicated than that. Given that the author of the term wrote a whole book about it rather than just tweeting those steps, I think over-complicating may be part of its genetics. Others are just continuing the trend. --- For the record: yeah, short-cycle red/green/refactor fits how I like to do TDD. I don't know that I'd claim that it is TDD though - by far the majority I've run across take it to extremes, though of course my coding-exposure circle is skewed and may not even remotely be representative. In that way, TDD sits in a very similar brain-space for me as Scrum does. Useful foundations, utter nonsense if taken to extremes, unsure if a net-positive influence (globally, not personally) in the end. I have seen a looooot of negative-value tests, in ever-increasing quantity as time goes on, in the name of TDD.

Jtsummers 4y ago
As a partial defense for the length of the book, it was "Test-Driven Development by Example". Hard to fit examples into the page or two needed to explain the core concept itself. Letting ideas like this move into the "similar brain-space ... as Scrum" is dangerous. You're actively choosing not to think at that point, you're choosing anti-thought over thought. Move too many things into that brain-space and you're going to become thoughtless. Don't let that happen, you have more to contribute to the world than becoming another mindless automaton. Engage with the idea instead, understand why it does or does not make sense to you. Why it is or is not applicable to some area. Why other people have different ideas about it or disagree on its applicability. You'll be much better for it. And as much as I also dislike Scrum, it's worth engaging with its core ideas as well.
- Groxx 4y ago
  I think you may be reading too much into my Scrum brain-space. Or maybe projecting? I've looked at those things. Found what I think are the core valuable bits, and how they apply to me and my situation. And I do not want to interact with them in a professional setting, because they are almost always distorted beyond any reasonable interpretation of their core, losing all meaning of the term and being used as an excuse to continue bad behaviors. They're quite similar in that respect.

by Groxx 4y ago

Jtsummers 4y ago

As a partial defense for the length of the book, it was "Test-Driven Development by Example". Hard to fit examples into the page or two needed to explain the core concept itself. Letting ideas like this move into the "similar brain-space ... as Scrum" is dangerous. You're actively choosing not to think at that point, you're choosing anti-thought over thought. Move too many things into that brain-space and you're going to become thoughtless. Don't let that happen, you have more to contribute to the world than becoming another mindless automaton. Engage with the idea instead, understand why it does or does not make sense to you. Why it is or is not applicable to some area. Why other people have different ideas about it or disagree on its applicability. You'll be much better for it. And as much as I also dislike Scrum, it's worth engaging with its core ideas as well.

Groxx 4y ago
I think you may be reading too much into my Scrum brain-space. Or maybe projecting? I've looked at those things. Found what I think are the core valuable bits, and how they apply to me and my situation. And I do not want to interact with them in a professional setting, because they are almost always distorted beyond any reasonable interpretation of their core, losing all meaning of the term and being used as an excuse to continue bad behaviors. They're quite similar in that respect.