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It's a big call though, to risk starting a war and pissing off the population if they're already not to happy about Covid19's handling. In contrast, Hitler mad

It's a big call though, to risk starting a war and pissing off the population if they're already not to happy about Covid19's handling. In contrast, Hitler made Germans feel like they were heading for a better place so he garnered support, Xi though, doesn't seem as charismatic and popular. So it's going to be a much harder sell to start an all out hot war over something that means basically nothing to 99% of the population. Also invading a country is one thing, hanging onto it is another, Syria, Afganistan, Vietnam etc for example. China isn't exactly going to make friends taking the country by force.

throwaway290 4y ago
Population's attitude has been prepared by the party well in advance. Lots of people are pissed off because Taiwan is not invaded yet, not the other way around.
- another_story 4y ago
  Are they really? A small but vocal (and sometimes state supported) group of people are actually mad. Another group will mindlessly mouth such sentiment, but the majority seem not to care and just want to get on with their lives.
  - honkler 4y ago
    tyranny of the minority, as taleb would say.
- bamboozled 4y ago
  You would have very little chance of knowing what Chinese people are thinking by the fact that thinking the wrong thing, let alone vocalizing it could maybe ruin you or your families life.
  - throwaway290 4y ago
    If literally all people whose opinion matters to you say and provide sound arguments that Taiwan needs to be annexed then if you are normal human (not a psycho) you'd eventually believe the same. And then who cares what those people really thought, because their expressed opinion is the only one that mattered. Sad, yes. The big issue with totalitarian regimes I guess.
8note 4y ago
Xi has sold that Taiwan is part of china, and that it's weird that Chinese people can't visit without a passport China is continuing to hold tibet as an invader of course, same with Xinjiang. America and western powers doesn't guarantee failure. Eg. Afghanistan has never been held by westerners, but has been by the persians many times
- QuarterReptile 4y ago
  I asked some Chinese college students about this about 10 years ago. "What is Taiwan?" "Province of China." "But don't you need a visa to visit?" "It's a special province."
  - bamboozled 4y ago
    Chinese college students are very likely to tell you one thing and believe another, it's a symptom of growing up in a place where having the wrong thing can get you in a lot of trouble. People aren't that dumb, even if they are brainwashed.
    - throwaway290 4y ago
      How can you assume a person believes something other than what they say when there is no way for you to measure what they think except through their actions and their words?
      - bamboozled 4y ago
        Because I believe most people deep down don't want war, or invasion and aggression. Most people given the choice would rather live peacefully with others. The outlier here is there is 1 billion+ Chinese furious and ready to invade China. Not the other way around.
        throwaway290 4y ago
        That's your philosophical position then, are humans innately good or not. I wish it was true but in the entire history of humanity tribes fought for resources, did they change...
eyelidlessness 4y ago
[flagged]
komali2 4y ago
Xi is incredibly popular across the PRC, and the textbooks are changing to enforce a new cult of personality. I wouldn't risk speculating on his popularity as a measure of whether or not an imperialist invasion would happen.
- ssnistfajen 4y ago
  The whitepaper protests clearly shows he doesn't enjoy incredible popularity, so are the massive censorship term lists that consist solely of nicknames of Xi. Why would so many of these terms exist if everybody liked him? Leaked censorship list of 564 terms containing references to Xi Jinping from Xiaohongshu, a popular social media app, circa 2020: https://chinadigitaltimes.net/space/%E5%B0%8F%E7%BA%A2%E4%B9%A6%E5%AE%A1%E6%9F%A5%E7%99%BE%E7%A7%91%EF%BC%9A%E4%B9%A0%E8%BF%91%E5%B9%B3%E6%95%8F%E6%84%9F%E8%AF%8D%E5%BA%93 https://chinadigitaltimes.net/space/%E5%B0%8F%E7%BA%A2%E4%B9... Leaked censorship list of 35467 terms containing references to Xi Jinping from LeTV, a once-popular video streaming service, issued directly from the State Council Information Office, circa 2016: https://chinadigitaltimes.net/space/%E5%9B%BD%E6%96%B0%E5%8A%9E%E4%B9%A0%E8%BF%91%E5%B9%B3%E6%95%8F%E6%84%9F%E8%AF%8D%E5%BA%93 https://chinadigitaltimes.net/space/%E5%9B%BD%E6%96%B0%E5%8A... The bottom line is an invasion of Taiwan carries a high risk of ruin for the ruling clique in the CCP. There were multiple times when the ROC was in much more vulnerable positions both militarily and diplomatically (pre-Korean War and post-US-PRC approachment) and invasions didn't happen then. The PRC is much more export-dependent than Russia despite all the nationalist hysteria, and ruining all that with sanctions is going to do far more damage to themselves compared to simply keeping the propaganda machine running with inciteful editorials without organizing an actual military campaign.
lesuorac 4y ago
> In contrast, Hitler made Germans feel like they were heading for a better place so he garnered support I mean, the Nazi's cap'd out at 37% [1] when they initially became the largest party and that dropped to 33% by the next vote. The average German never felt that he would lead them to a better place (otherwise it'd be 50+% not 37%) and more Germans felt Nazis were doing a poor job once they started governing. Also, this is a First-Past-The-Poll situation so parties's popularity will be inflated in the voting results. i.e. more than 10x people voted for Nazi Party than were registered members; presumably the vast majority of Germans thought a different party would do better but between the Nazis or the Communists they picked the Nazis. [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adolf_Hitler%27s_rise_to_power#Seizure_of_control_(1931%E2%80%931933) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adolf_Hitler%27s_rise_to_power...

throwaway290 4y ago

Population's attitude has been prepared by the party well in advance. Lots of people are pissed off because Taiwan is not invaded yet, not the other way around.

another_story 4y ago
Are they really? A small but vocal (and sometimes state supported) group of people are actually mad. Another group will mindlessly mouth such sentiment, but the majority seem not to care and just want to get on with their lives.
- honkler 4y ago
  tyranny of the minority, as taleb would say.
bamboozled 4y ago
You would have very little chance of knowing what Chinese people are thinking by the fact that thinking the wrong thing, let alone vocalizing it could maybe ruin you or your families life.
- throwaway290 4y ago
  If literally all people whose opinion matters to you say and provide sound arguments that Taiwan needs to be annexed then if you are normal human (not a psycho) you'd eventually believe the same. And then who cares what those people really thought, because their expressed opinion is the only one that mattered. Sad, yes. The big issue with totalitarian regimes I guess.

8note 4y ago

Xi has sold that Taiwan is part of china, and that it's weird that Chinese people can't visit without a passport China is continuing to hold tibet as an invader of course, same with Xinjiang. America and western powers doesn't guarantee failure. Eg. Afghanistan has never been held by westerners, but has been by the persians many times

QuarterReptile 4y ago
I asked some Chinese college students about this about 10 years ago. "What is Taiwan?" "Province of China." "But don't you need a visa to visit?" "It's a special province."
- bamboozled 4y ago
  Chinese college students are very likely to tell you one thing and believe another, it's a symptom of growing up in a place where having the wrong thing can get you in a lot of trouble. People aren't that dumb, even if they are brainwashed.
  - throwaway290 4y ago
    How can you assume a person believes something other than what they say when there is no way for you to measure what they think except through their actions and their words?
    - bamboozled 4y ago
      Because I believe most people deep down don't want war, or invasion and aggression. Most people given the choice would rather live peacefully with others. The outlier here is there is 1 billion+ Chinese furious and ready to invade China. Not the other way around.
      - throwaway290 4y ago
        That's your philosophical position then, are humans innately good or not. I wish it was true but in the entire history of humanity tribes fought for resources, did they change...

eyelidlessness 4y ago

[flagged]

komali2 4y ago

Xi is incredibly popular across the PRC, and the textbooks are changing to enforce a new cult of personality. I wouldn't risk speculating on his popularity as a measure of whether or not an imperialist invasion would happen.

ssnistfajen 4y ago
The whitepaper protests clearly shows he doesn't enjoy incredible popularity, so are the massive censorship term lists that consist solely of nicknames of Xi. Why would so many of these terms exist if everybody liked him? Leaked censorship list of 564 terms containing references to Xi Jinping from Xiaohongshu, a popular social media app, circa 2020: https://chinadigitaltimes.net/space/%E5%B0%8F%E7%BA%A2%E4%B9%A6%E5%AE%A1%E6%9F%A5%E7%99%BE%E7%A7%91%EF%BC%9A%E4%B9%A0%E8%BF%91%E5%B9%B3%E6%95%8F%E6%84%9F%E8%AF%8D%E5%BA%93 https://chinadigitaltimes.net/space/%E5%B0%8F%E7%BA%A2%E4%B9... Leaked censorship list of 35467 terms containing references to Xi Jinping from LeTV, a once-popular video streaming service, issued directly from the State Council Information Office, circa 2016: https://chinadigitaltimes.net/space/%E5%9B%BD%E6%96%B0%E5%8A%9E%E4%B9%A0%E8%BF%91%E5%B9%B3%E6%95%8F%E6%84%9F%E8%AF%8D%E5%BA%93 https://chinadigitaltimes.net/space/%E5%9B%BD%E6%96%B0%E5%8A... The bottom line is an invasion of Taiwan carries a high risk of ruin for the ruling clique in the CCP. There were multiple times when the ROC was in much more vulnerable positions both militarily and diplomatically (pre-Korean War and post-US-PRC approachment) and invasions didn't happen then. The PRC is much more export-dependent than Russia despite all the nationalist hysteria, and ruining all that with sanctions is going to do far more damage to themselves compared to simply keeping the propaganda machine running with inciteful editorials without organizing an actual military campaign.

lesuorac 4y ago

> In contrast, Hitler made Germans feel like they were heading for a better place so he garnered support I mean, the Nazi's cap'd out at 37% [1] when they initially became the largest party and that dropped to 33% by the next vote. The average German never felt that he would lead them to a better place (otherwise it'd be 50+% not 37%) and more Germans felt Nazis were doing a poor job once they started governing. Also, this is a First-Past-The-Poll situation so parties's popularity will be inflated in the voting results. i.e. more than 10x people voted for Nazi Party than were registered members; presumably the vast majority of Germans thought a different party would do better but between the Nazis or the Communists they picked the Nazis. [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adolf_Hitler%27s_rise_to_power#Seizure_of_control_(1931%E2%80%931933) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adolf_Hitler%27s_rise_to_power...