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Python's demise would be it's undeserving fate to be the world's best "glue" language. The language needs to stand on it's own to be competitive in the long ru

Python's demise would be it's undeserving fate to be the world's best "glue" language. The language needs to stand on it's own to be competitive in the long run. Pure Python modules are much easier to install and keep updated.

pdimitar 4y ago
It will be a VERY deserving fate, since the community is always busy fighting amongst themselves and the maintainers are conservative to the point of being unreasonable. Maybe such a community deserves obscurity. Python has real problems that need addressing, and that was true 10 years ago as well, packaging included. Pretending this isn't the case makes more serious techies just laugh at Python, and it's fully deserved. We do tech, for God's sake. We don't do religion. Merit is what should call the shots.
- visarga 4y ago
  I have seen recent predictions that put Python as the main AI language in 2030 with 90% confidence. It's not dead or going away. Python also works better in Codex and chatGPT, as an output of AI. Almost all AI research comes in Python, most of it never gets reimplemented, and the cutting edge stuff are usually just in Python. So if you want to try the latest toys - you guessed it - you need Python. Or be prepared to wait for 6-12 months/forever to get ported to your lang, and be prepared for bugs and less support AI is going to be a differentiator for programming languages. The languages with more code out there, more questions answered on SO, will work better, causing more adoption, it's the rich get richer problem.
  - pdimitar 4y ago
    I believe you're misrepresenting what I said. I got no horse in the race and I don't care if Python is "going away". It likely will not since it has a huge inertia and devoted fans. Furthermore, you citing the current state of affairs is not convincing. You're basically saying "the sun is shining now at noon, surely it will keep shining during midnight". Or "right now it's raining so surely it'll keep raining 24/7 for the next year". Also who predicts stuff for 2030 with 90% confidence? I'd like to have that person's self-esteem because nobody can predict as far into the future. I've been part of a number of communities and Python's seems dysfunctional and anarchic. Maybe that's a good thing and breeds creative forces -- the proponents certainly make that case, I heard, and I'm not opposed to the idea, just a tad skeptical. Time will tell, right? In the meantime, Python is still missing some stability guarantees and a good package manager. As a programmer that's a turnoff, so I work with other languages. Make of that what you will but I'll restate that I got no horse in the race. I'm using my experience to judge if something seems a good fit to work with, and maybe -- does it have a future.
- rerdavies 4y ago
  Also a good language for non-professional programmers. When people ask me which language they should learn as a first language, I recommend Python. Not because it's a great language; but because it has a massive ecosystem that allows beginners to build fun things with minimal effort. The greatest strength of Python, I think, is that it allows cross-disciplinary collaboration, because it's easy for non-programmers to learn. Which makes the lack of a functional easy-to-use package manager all the more frustrating.
  - pdimitar 4y ago
    You're not wrong but it's a double-edged sword: people's first language leaves a deep impression and people often can't un-write (from their brains) the wrong programming practices they learned from Python. I've seen people openly admit they'd learn their second language much faster if they didn't try to constantly compare it with Python. As usual, hindsight is 20/20, and nobody is telling you these things beforehand. And those who are lucky enough to have wisdom shared with them are usually quick to dismiss it and not listen to it.
    - strokirk 4y ago
      But isn’t this true no matter the first- and second-language combo? I started out writing C and this definitely influenced how I learned and wrote python code. My colleagues that started out with ruby, or java, also program in distinct ways that show their “accent”, so to say.
      - pdimitar 4y ago
        You are saying "this is not true" while agreeing with me -- confusing. :)
    - deleted 4y ago
      [deleted]

pdimitar 4y ago

It will be a VERY deserving fate, since the community is always busy fighting amongst themselves and the maintainers are conservative to the point of being unreasonable. Maybe such a community deserves obscurity. Python has real problems that need addressing, and that was true 10 years ago as well, packaging included. Pretending this isn't the case makes more serious techies just laugh at Python, and it's fully deserved. We do tech, for God's sake. We don't do religion. Merit is what should call the shots.

visarga 4y ago
I have seen recent predictions that put Python as the main AI language in 2030 with 90% confidence. It's not dead or going away. Python also works better in Codex and chatGPT, as an output of AI. Almost all AI research comes in Python, most of it never gets reimplemented, and the cutting edge stuff are usually just in Python. So if you want to try the latest toys - you guessed it - you need Python. Or be prepared to wait for 6-12 months/forever to get ported to your lang, and be prepared for bugs and less support AI is going to be a differentiator for programming languages. The languages with more code out there, more questions answered on SO, will work better, causing more adoption, it's the rich get richer problem.
- pdimitar 4y ago
  I believe you're misrepresenting what I said. I got no horse in the race and I don't care if Python is "going away". It likely will not since it has a huge inertia and devoted fans. Furthermore, you citing the current state of affairs is not convincing. You're basically saying "the sun is shining now at noon, surely it will keep shining during midnight". Or "right now it's raining so surely it'll keep raining 24/7 for the next year". Also who predicts stuff for 2030 with 90% confidence? I'd like to have that person's self-esteem because nobody can predict as far into the future. I've been part of a number of communities and Python's seems dysfunctional and anarchic. Maybe that's a good thing and breeds creative forces -- the proponents certainly make that case, I heard, and I'm not opposed to the idea, just a tad skeptical. Time will tell, right? In the meantime, Python is still missing some stability guarantees and a good package manager. As a programmer that's a turnoff, so I work with other languages. Make of that what you will but I'll restate that I got no horse in the race. I'm using my experience to judge if something seems a good fit to work with, and maybe -- does it have a future.
rerdavies 4y ago
Also a good language for non-professional programmers. When people ask me which language they should learn as a first language, I recommend Python. Not because it's a great language; but because it has a massive ecosystem that allows beginners to build fun things with minimal effort. The greatest strength of Python, I think, is that it allows cross-disciplinary collaboration, because it's easy for non-programmers to learn. Which makes the lack of a functional easy-to-use package manager all the more frustrating.
- pdimitar 4y ago
  You're not wrong but it's a double-edged sword: people's first language leaves a deep impression and people often can't un-write (from their brains) the wrong programming practices they learned from Python. I've seen people openly admit they'd learn their second language much faster if they didn't try to constantly compare it with Python. As usual, hindsight is 20/20, and nobody is telling you these things beforehand. And those who are lucky enough to have wisdom shared with them are usually quick to dismiss it and not listen to it.
  - strokirk 4y ago
    But isn’t this true no matter the first- and second-language combo? I started out writing C and this definitely influenced how I learned and wrote python code. My colleagues that started out with ruby, or java, also program in distinct ways that show their “accent”, so to say.
    - pdimitar 4y ago
      You are saying "this is not true" while agreeing with me -- confusing. :)
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]