4 ms·

Not being struck, I agree, but being slapped on the bum once or twice might discipline them.

by MrOwnPut 4y ago

tptacek 4y ago
Being slapped anywhere on their body is striking, as you would quickly discover if you tried it on a police officer.
- MrOwnPut 4y ago
  Not how you're attempting to use it. You're using the "strike" to make it seem like a powerful blow. A light slap on the bum is entirely different and that's what I'm talking about. Holding hands with an officer without permission would end you up in jail. Grabbing an item from the officer without permission would end you up in jail. You can do all of those things with your child that you can't with an officer. Your analogy's logic breaks down easily.
  - tptacek 4y ago
    No, I'm doing nothing of the sort. Try precisely the physical assault you're condoning for a child on a police officer. After they break your arm, they'll put you in a lockup, and the state will follow that up with a felony prosecution. (I don't condone police violence either; I'm laying out a positive argument, not a normative one.)
    - MrOwnPut 4y ago
      You are, everyone can see which word you are choosing to stick with, and why. You ignored the breakdown of your analogy. Just going to reiterate, if you're hurting your child you aren't spanking, you're beating.
      - chownie 4y ago
        If it doesn't hurt then it's not spanking...? I don't understand these tortured semantics. The act of spanking is to strike the butt cheeks to inflict pain as a punishment, there is no other mechanic at play. It is striking another person to hurt them.
        MrOwnPut 4y ago
        > to inflict pain as a punishment > It is striking another person to hurt them. You added those parts. I said exactly the opposite. There is another mechanic at play. The fear of getting in trouble and going through the process. The light slap on the bum isn't even supposed to sting.
        tptacek 4y ago
        What you're doing here, trying to shift the meaning of the word "hurt" depending on whether you're the one speaking or someone else is, is a tactic that is indistinguishable from trolling. It's fine if we're just at the limit of productive dialog here.
        MrOwnPut 4y ago
        No what you're doing here is trying to add your own pre-conceived notions to what I'm saying. But I do agree we are at the limit of productive dialog, have a good day.
  - vidarh 4y ago
    Slapping another adult on the bum without consent is assault or battery a lot of places. I'm in the UK where slapping your child is legal, but merely causing another adult to be in fear of imminent "unlawful physical contact" (an unwanted slap, for example) is assault even if it never actually happens. The hypocrisy is astounding and one of the worst aspects - behavior we've outlawed against adults are being outright advocated for children in a position where they can't reasonably defend themselves. You're seeking to justify violence and abuse, no matter how you trivialise it.
    - MrOwnPut 4y ago
      Copying this as you said the same thing as another user: Try to do anything to another adult with consent and you'll have criminal charges. You can't ground another adult, or take away their stuff. You can with your child. Also teammates slap each other on the bum all the time.
      - vidarh 4y ago
        And if a teammate makes it clear they don't want to, and people still do it, it's battery in the UK, and a criminal offense. In theory it'd be an offense even without a warning, but one might expect the defence to argue they believed there had been prior consent. My ex took someone to court over an unwanted slap on the bum a while back, in case someone thinks this is hypothetic, as the CPS agreed it was a crime though they cautioned they'd have a hard time proving the case. I responded to your other point elsewhere.
  - hooverd 4y ago
    How about if a teacher spanks my child without my consent (which I'd never give) I get to flog them?
    - MrOwnPut 4y ago
      Sure? Contact your congressman.
vidarh 4y ago
It's great for teaching people violence is acceptable, as we can see in plenty of responses here.
- MrOwnPut 4y ago
  It's sad that many people conflate discipline with violence. What you are doing is making violence acceptable with your conflation.
  - vidarh 4y ago
    What you're doing is trivialising abuse and violence by pretending physical discipline isn't. Try applying it to an adult without consent and see the criminal charges you'd face.
    - MrOwnPut 4y ago
      > What you're doing is trivialising abuse and violence by pretending physical discipline isn't. Again, what you're doing is conflating abuse and violence with discipline. > Try applying it to an adult without consent and see the criminal charges you'd face. Try to do anything to another adult with consent and you'll have criminal charges. You can't ground another adult, or take away their stuff. You can with your child.
      - vidarh 4y ago
        I'm not conflating anything - it is assault or battery when done to an adult, and it is no less assault or battery when done to a child whether or not the law recognises it. Try to do anything to another adult with consent and you'll have criminal charges. > You can't ground another adult, or take away their stuff. You can with your child. You can tell another adult they are grounded all you want. You just can't rely on physical violence to enforce it. With respect to possessions, there's a stark difference between bodily autonomy and property. That you're stretching to the point of comparing violence with taking away their stuff is disgusting.
- 4y ago

Not being struck, I agree, but being slapped on the bum once or twice might discipline them.

tptacek 4y ago

Being slapped anywhere on their body is striking, as you would quickly discover if you tried it on a police officer.

MrOwnPut 4y ago
Not how you're attempting to use it. You're using the "strike" to make it seem like a powerful blow. A light slap on the bum is entirely different and that's what I'm talking about. Holding hands with an officer without permission would end you up in jail. Grabbing an item from the officer without permission would end you up in jail. You can do all of those things with your child that you can't with an officer. Your analogy's logic breaks down easily.
- tptacek 4y ago
  No, I'm doing nothing of the sort. Try precisely the physical assault you're condoning for a child on a police officer. After they break your arm, they'll put you in a lockup, and the state will follow that up with a felony prosecution. (I don't condone police violence either; I'm laying out a positive argument, not a normative one.)
  - MrOwnPut 4y ago
    You are, everyone can see which word you are choosing to stick with, and why. You ignored the breakdown of your analogy. Just going to reiterate, if you're hurting your child you aren't spanking, you're beating.
    - chownie 4y ago
      If it doesn't hurt then it's not spanking...? I don't understand these tortured semantics. The act of spanking is to strike the butt cheeks to inflict pain as a punishment, there is no other mechanic at play. It is striking another person to hurt them.
      - MrOwnPut 4y ago
        > to inflict pain as a punishment > It is striking another person to hurt them. You added those parts. I said exactly the opposite. There is another mechanic at play. The fear of getting in trouble and going through the process. The light slap on the bum isn't even supposed to sting.
        tptacek 4y ago
        What you're doing here, trying to shift the meaning of the word "hurt" depending on whether you're the one speaking or someone else is, is a tactic that is indistinguishable from trolling. It's fine if we're just at the limit of productive dialog here.
        MrOwnPut 4y ago
        No what you're doing here is trying to add your own pre-conceived notions to what I'm saying. But I do agree we are at the limit of productive dialog, have a good day.
- vidarh 4y ago
  Slapping another adult on the bum without consent is assault or battery a lot of places. I'm in the UK where slapping your child is legal, but merely causing another adult to be in fear of imminent "unlawful physical contact" (an unwanted slap, for example) is assault even if it never actually happens. The hypocrisy is astounding and one of the worst aspects - behavior we've outlawed against adults are being outright advocated for children in a position where they can't reasonably defend themselves. You're seeking to justify violence and abuse, no matter how you trivialise it.
  - MrOwnPut 4y ago
    Copying this as you said the same thing as another user: Try to do anything to another adult with consent and you'll have criminal charges. You can't ground another adult, or take away their stuff. You can with your child. Also teammates slap each other on the bum all the time.
    - vidarh 4y ago
      And if a teammate makes it clear they don't want to, and people still do it, it's battery in the UK, and a criminal offense. In theory it'd be an offense even without a warning, but one might expect the defence to argue they believed there had been prior consent. My ex took someone to court over an unwanted slap on the bum a while back, in case someone thinks this is hypothetic, as the CPS agreed it was a crime though they cautioned they'd have a hard time proving the case. I responded to your other point elsewhere.
- hooverd 4y ago
  How about if a teacher spanks my child without my consent (which I'd never give) I get to flog them?
  - MrOwnPut 4y ago
    Sure? Contact your congressman.

vidarh 4y ago

It's great for teaching people violence is acceptable, as we can see in plenty of responses here.

MrOwnPut 4y ago
It's sad that many people conflate discipline with violence. What you are doing is making violence acceptable with your conflation.
- vidarh 4y ago
  What you're doing is trivialising abuse and violence by pretending physical discipline isn't. Try applying it to an adult without consent and see the criminal charges you'd face.
  - MrOwnPut 4y ago
    > What you're doing is trivialising abuse and violence by pretending physical discipline isn't. Again, what you're doing is conflating abuse and violence with discipline. > Try applying it to an adult without consent and see the criminal charges you'd face. Try to do anything to another adult with consent and you'll have criminal charges. You can't ground another adult, or take away their stuff. You can with your child.
    - vidarh 4y ago
      I'm not conflating anything - it is assault or battery when done to an adult, and it is no less assault or battery when done to a child whether or not the law recognises it. Try to do anything to another adult with consent and you'll have criminal charges. > You can't ground another adult, or take away their stuff. You can with your child. You can tell another adult they are grounded all you want. You just can't rely on physical violence to enforce it. With respect to possessions, there's a stark difference between bodily autonomy and property. That you're stretching to the point of comparing violence with taking away their stuff is disgusting.
4y ago