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I don't know why Tesla etc are not required to report the number of crashes per 1000km in different modes publicly. Until those numbers are available none of u

I don't know why Tesla etc are not required to report the number of crashes per 1000km in different modes publicly. Until those numbers are available none of us can really judge, least of all based on single incidents...

elif 4y ago
they've reported them since 2016 tesla.com/VehicleSafetyReport
- culi 4y ago
  They have never published any data. Also, those number are also obviously misleading. Comparing my 2008 extended van I bought for $5k to a luxury vehicle is obviously pointless and useless In addition, those "safety reports" continue to spout misinformation that the National Transportation Safety Board is currently suing Tesla for
  - epgui 4y ago
    You’re commenting on a literal publishing of data. Just because the data doesn’t look the way you want doesn’t mean it’s not data. (Edit: if you’re going to downvote me, please explain how a literal interpretation of exactly what I wrote is technically incorrect.)
    - culi 4y ago
      This is a report containing unverifiable statements about internal data that they explicitly refuse to release
      - epgui 4y ago
        It’s still data. I’m not saying it’s great data, I’m just saying it’s some data. And I get downvoted?
        JoeAltmaier 4y ago
        If they don't release it, then it's vapor. Not data. Just a PR story.
        wolverine876 4y ago
        > If they don't release it, then it's vapor. Plenty of analysis is based on data that isn't released. And do you have data that says otherwise? Why should we believe you?
        detaro 4y ago
        why should we believe them, especially given their track record?
        epgui 4y ago
        Well it is a general principle of civility that we should believe people by default, unless we have good reason not to. I'm not sure what you're referring to when you say "track record" though.
        culi 4y ago
        Maybe you should look into why the National Transportation Safety Board sued Tesla for spreading misinformation See also: - The dangerous "we're almost at full self-driving" myths Musk continues to spread (which is probably part of the reason Google didn't acquire them given that they've been ahead on the research of this and knew how BS that is) - The battery swap lies that they made a huge announcement about in order to take advantage of a California subsidy and then simply... never actually allowed any Tesla owner to swap batteries - Tesla lying to shareholders about warranty expense by categorizing it as "goodwill" in order to inflate their gross margin and net income (since at least Q2 2018) - On top of the California battery swap stuff, they've been sued for subsidy fraud in multiple countries including Canada and Germany. Much of it's "profitability" has simply been selling regulatory credits to other OEMs - Musk using Tesla to bail out his cousin's failing solar company SolarCity and not disclosing the personal connection to shareholders
  - sidibe 4y ago
    Luxury vs non luxury is always the first thing brought up with this report, but that's not the biggest issue IMO. Mainly it compares the easiest miles where people feel comfortable using Autopilot vs all miles. I wonder how many miles per accident there are with cruise control engaged.
    - culi 4y ago
      the "new luxury vehicle" vs "all vehicles on the road" is relevant to Tesla's claimed overall safety of Tesla vehicles in general. But I agree wrt the Autopilot "safety" claims that the most relevant detail is the fact that highway crashes are already more than 2x less likely At this point we still don't have any actual public evidence that driving assistance technology is even safer than driving without it. If Tesla's so confident in it they should release data because all the actual academic metastudies still have the same conclusion: we don't have any data to say anything about its safety.
  - trogdor 4y ago
    The NTSB is not suing Tesla. Why do you think they are?
yreg 4y ago
>I don't know why Because no other car maker is mandated to report these numbers either. Tesla is not the only brand with adaptive cruise control or line assist. (I think sharing the data would be the right thing to do though.)
- jjulius 4y ago
  >Tesla is not the only brand with adaptive cruise control or line assist. What about FSD?
marsokod 4y ago
While it would be definitely interesting, I am not sure it would be really helpful. This is really comparing apples and oranges here: you will have statistics for modes that are used in specific situations against more global statistics. Without more data (which would raise privacy questions), it will be hard to correct the numbers for the usage.

elif 4y ago

they've reported them since 2016 tesla.com/VehicleSafetyReport

culi 4y ago
They have never published any data. Also, those number are also obviously misleading. Comparing my 2008 extended van I bought for $5k to a luxury vehicle is obviously pointless and useless In addition, those "safety reports" continue to spout misinformation that the National Transportation Safety Board is currently suing Tesla for
- epgui 4y ago
  You’re commenting on a literal publishing of data. Just because the data doesn’t look the way you want doesn’t mean it’s not data. (Edit: if you’re going to downvote me, please explain how a literal interpretation of exactly what I wrote is technically incorrect.)
  - culi 4y ago
    This is a report containing unverifiable statements about internal data that they explicitly refuse to release
    - epgui 4y ago
      It’s still data. I’m not saying it’s great data, I’m just saying it’s some data. And I get downvoted?
      - JoeAltmaier 4y ago
        If they don't release it, then it's vapor. Not data. Just a PR story.
        wolverine876 4y ago
        > If they don't release it, then it's vapor. Plenty of analysis is based on data that isn't released. And do you have data that says otherwise? Why should we believe you?
        detaro 4y ago
        why should we believe them, especially given their track record?
        epgui 4y ago
        Well it is a general principle of civility that we should believe people by default, unless we have good reason not to. I'm not sure what you're referring to when you say "track record" though.
        culi 4y ago
        Maybe you should look into why the National Transportation Safety Board sued Tesla for spreading misinformation See also: - The dangerous "we're almost at full self-driving" myths Musk continues to spread (which is probably part of the reason Google didn't acquire them given that they've been ahead on the research of this and knew how BS that is) - The battery swap lies that they made a huge announcement about in order to take advantage of a California subsidy and then simply... never actually allowed any Tesla owner to swap batteries - Tesla lying to shareholders about warranty expense by categorizing it as "goodwill" in order to inflate their gross margin and net income (since at least Q2 2018) - On top of the California battery swap stuff, they've been sued for subsidy fraud in multiple countries including Canada and Germany. Much of it's "profitability" has simply been selling regulatory credits to other OEMs - Musk using Tesla to bail out his cousin's failing solar company SolarCity and not disclosing the personal connection to shareholders
- sidibe 4y ago
  Luxury vs non luxury is always the first thing brought up with this report, but that's not the biggest issue IMO. Mainly it compares the easiest miles where people feel comfortable using Autopilot vs all miles. I wonder how many miles per accident there are with cruise control engaged.
  - culi 4y ago
    the "new luxury vehicle" vs "all vehicles on the road" is relevant to Tesla's claimed overall safety of Tesla vehicles in general. But I agree wrt the Autopilot "safety" claims that the most relevant detail is the fact that highway crashes are already more than 2x less likely At this point we still don't have any actual public evidence that driving assistance technology is even safer than driving without it. If Tesla's so confident in it they should release data because all the actual academic metastudies still have the same conclusion: we don't have any data to say anything about its safety.
- trogdor 4y ago
  The NTSB is not suing Tesla. Why do you think they are?

yreg 4y ago

>I don't know why Because no other car maker is mandated to report these numbers either. Tesla is not the only brand with adaptive cruise control or line assist. (I think sharing the data would be the right thing to do though.)

jjulius 4y ago
>Tesla is not the only brand with adaptive cruise control or line assist. What about FSD?

marsokod 4y ago

While it would be definitely interesting, I am not sure it would be really helpful. This is really comparing apples and oranges here: you will have statistics for modes that are used in specific situations against more global statistics. Without more data (which would raise privacy questions), it will be hard to correct the numbers for the usage.