5 ms·

Much as Teslas navigate through "un-occluded space" I wonder if they do not sufficiently factor in their own Occlusion (blocking) of space. What kind of idiot

Much as Teslas navigate through "un-occluded space" I wonder if they do not sufficiently factor in their own Occlusion (blocking) of space. What kind of idiot STOPS ON A DIME with speeding cars hot on his tail? Only a Computer... It's unfortunate that the Driver did not have the sense to Slam on the Gas -The idea of "Slow == Safe" can be disastrous...

nullish_signal 4y ago
As an aside, I wish that Stoplights would factor in Aggregate Kinetic Energy of the Traffic they manage. I feel a bit bad every time my Single Stopped Car gets a Green, causing a group of 10 Cars at 40 mph to Stop, then later Re-Accelerate. If the stupid Junction had waited some time, the 10 Cars would happily carry their 40 mph through, allowing me to go once the Large Kinetic Energy Traffic had passed uninterrupted.
- jeffbee 4y ago
  The aggregate kinetic energy of any number of stopped cars is zero so I don’t see how your algorithm will work.
  - tzs 4y ago
    For simplicity lets assume all the cars in this discussion are the same mass and travel at the same speed except when they slow and stop for a traffic light or are accelerating back up to speed after the light changes. Let E be the kinetic energy of each car when it is not dealing with a traffic light. Let's assume no regenerative braking. Let's assume that a car idling at rest uses R energy So we have 1 car that approaches the light, gets a red, and stops. It has to shed E kinetic energy. Then 10 cars approach the intersection on the perpendicular road. Before they reach it the light changes and they all have to stop, shedding 10 E kinetic energy. The first car resumes its journey. The light changes again and the other 10 resume. The net result is that encountering the intersection caused this 11 car system to shed 11 E kinetic energy more and to consume 11 R idling energy more than would have been consumed if the intersection had not been there (e.g., if the crossing had been an overpass). What he's proposing is that some sort of smart traffic light system could notice the 10 approaching cars and hold their green a little longer so that the 10 cars do not have to stop. Suppose it has to hold the light long enough that car 1 has to wait twice as long. The energy cost of the intersection on the 11 car system under that scenario is E shed kinetic energy and 2 R idling energy. That's going to be much less that 11 E + 11 R.
- hgsgm 4y ago
  In English, we don't capitalize common nouns.
  - nullish_signal 4y ago
    I Write However I Please
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
pseudo0 4y ago
> What kind of idiot STOPS ON A DIME with speeding cars hot on his tail? Only a Computer... Humans do it on a pretty regular basis unfortunately. I have seen people slam on the brakes at highway speed for minor road debris, small animals, and a couple of times for no apparent reason. The only thing you can do as a driver is minimize your own risk by leaving sufficient following distance.
- wolverine876 4y ago
  > pretty regular basis It's very rare. I've never seen it, IIRC.
  - slenk 4y ago
    No offense, but what makes you the authority on all driving everywhere? Just because you haven't seen it doesn't mean it doesn't happen on a pretty regular basis. Dolphins die on a pretty regular basis and I've never seen it. That doesn't mean it doesn't happen on a regular basis...
    - wolverine876 4y ago
      Good point. What is the basis of the GGP statement?
- hellotomyrars 4y ago
  The follow distance thing really pisses me off. I was recently read ended as a result of the person behind me both not paying attention and having been way to close to me to stop in time. And since other drivers don’t understand the concept of a safe following distance they cut in front of me and now we’re practically bumper to bumper. Ironically this is one of the areas where driver assist can be helpful. Adaptive cruise control that maintains following distance though in practice I don’t think people use it much.
flandish 4y ago
All drivers should drive with the assumption the person in front of them will, at some point, instantly turn into a wall like a Wile E Coyote drawing of a mountainside cave.
- cjensen 4y ago
  Indeed. Transmission failures, bearing failures, tire blowouts, and throwing a rod all can cause a car on a freeway to stop quickly. The onus of avoiding this is entirely on the following car.
  - 13of40 4y ago
    Kind of makes me wonder what would have happened if all the cars involved had been on autopilot. Would there have been a collision at all?
    - epgui 4y ago
      We'll never know, but I would wager not. If the stopping car had been an old Toyota and we all had the same footage... well, it probably wouldn't even make the news in the first place... but if it did, we'd all be blaming the rear-enders. But because it's a Tesla, and there is a possibility that AI was involved, suddenly we shift our blame from the rear-enders and tailgaters to the computer. We've always had double standards for humans and machines.
      - flandish 4y ago
        Unless the cohort of AI/FSD cars are sharing vehicle health/telemetry and know when another is “about” to have a blowout, I posit a rear end can still happen. Yes brakes will apply sooner and follow distance is likely to be safer/wider. I just don’t yet trust it’s good enough.
- notfish 4y ago
  I’ve always thought of it more like “will slam on their breaks” than “turn into a wall”. In most states, rearending is your fault unless the person in front of you stopped faster than is normal (i.e. was hit head on by an oncoming car), and I think that sets a good standard for what you should be prepared for. If a tree falls on the car in front of you and you hit them because they stopped instantly, it’s hardly your fault.
hgsgm 4y ago
1. Didn't stop on a dime. Slowed down, and was hit while still movin5. 2. It's impossible to be safe if someone is (illegally!) tailgating.
sidlls 4y ago
Have you ever driven the 101 in the Bay Area? I’ve never seen so many purely shit drivers in my life. And I lived in Florida for years. People routinely merge across from their on-ramp to the express lane doing 5-10 mph under the speed limit, brake suddenly when the car a dozen or more car lengths ahead of them flashes their lights, etc. It’s a pure shitshow.

nullish_signal 4y ago

As an aside, I wish that Stoplights would factor in Aggregate Kinetic Energy of the Traffic they manage. I feel a bit bad every time my Single Stopped Car gets a Green, causing a group of 10 Cars at 40 mph to Stop, then later Re-Accelerate. If the stupid Junction had waited some time, the 10 Cars would happily carry their 40 mph through, allowing me to go once the Large Kinetic Energy Traffic had passed uninterrupted.

jeffbee 4y ago
The aggregate kinetic energy of any number of stopped cars is zero so I don’t see how your algorithm will work.
- tzs 4y ago
  For simplicity lets assume all the cars in this discussion are the same mass and travel at the same speed except when they slow and stop for a traffic light or are accelerating back up to speed after the light changes. Let E be the kinetic energy of each car when it is not dealing with a traffic light. Let's assume no regenerative braking. Let's assume that a car idling at rest uses R energy So we have 1 car that approaches the light, gets a red, and stops. It has to shed E kinetic energy. Then 10 cars approach the intersection on the perpendicular road. Before they reach it the light changes and they all have to stop, shedding 10 E kinetic energy. The first car resumes its journey. The light changes again and the other 10 resume. The net result is that encountering the intersection caused this 11 car system to shed 11 E kinetic energy more and to consume 11 R idling energy more than would have been consumed if the intersection had not been there (e.g., if the crossing had been an overpass). What he's proposing is that some sort of smart traffic light system could notice the 10 approaching cars and hold their green a little longer so that the 10 cars do not have to stop. Suppose it has to hold the light long enough that car 1 has to wait twice as long. The energy cost of the intersection on the 11 car system under that scenario is E shed kinetic energy and 2 R idling energy. That's going to be much less that 11 E + 11 R.
hgsgm 4y ago
In English, we don't capitalize common nouns.
- nullish_signal 4y ago
  I Write However I Please

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]

pseudo0 4y ago

> What kind of idiot STOPS ON A DIME with speeding cars hot on his tail? Only a Computer... Humans do it on a pretty regular basis unfortunately. I have seen people slam on the brakes at highway speed for minor road debris, small animals, and a couple of times for no apparent reason. The only thing you can do as a driver is minimize your own risk by leaving sufficient following distance.

wolverine876 4y ago
> pretty regular basis It's very rare. I've never seen it, IIRC.
- slenk 4y ago
  No offense, but what makes you the authority on all driving everywhere? Just because you haven't seen it doesn't mean it doesn't happen on a pretty regular basis. Dolphins die on a pretty regular basis and I've never seen it. That doesn't mean it doesn't happen on a regular basis...
  - wolverine876 4y ago
    Good point. What is the basis of the GGP statement?
hellotomyrars 4y ago
The follow distance thing really pisses me off. I was recently read ended as a result of the person behind me both not paying attention and having been way to close to me to stop in time. And since other drivers don’t understand the concept of a safe following distance they cut in front of me and now we’re practically bumper to bumper. Ironically this is one of the areas where driver assist can be helpful. Adaptive cruise control that maintains following distance though in practice I don’t think people use it much.

flandish 4y ago

All drivers should drive with the assumption the person in front of them will, at some point, instantly turn into a wall like a Wile E Coyote drawing of a mountainside cave.

cjensen 4y ago
Indeed. Transmission failures, bearing failures, tire blowouts, and throwing a rod all can cause a car on a freeway to stop quickly. The onus of avoiding this is entirely on the following car.
- 13of40 4y ago
  Kind of makes me wonder what would have happened if all the cars involved had been on autopilot. Would there have been a collision at all?
  - epgui 4y ago
    We'll never know, but I would wager not. If the stopping car had been an old Toyota and we all had the same footage... well, it probably wouldn't even make the news in the first place... but if it did, we'd all be blaming the rear-enders. But because it's a Tesla, and there is a possibility that AI was involved, suddenly we shift our blame from the rear-enders and tailgaters to the computer. We've always had double standards for humans and machines.
    - flandish 4y ago
      Unless the cohort of AI/FSD cars are sharing vehicle health/telemetry and know when another is “about” to have a blowout, I posit a rear end can still happen. Yes brakes will apply sooner and follow distance is likely to be safer/wider. I just don’t yet trust it’s good enough.
notfish 4y ago
I’ve always thought of it more like “will slam on their breaks” than “turn into a wall”. In most states, rearending is your fault unless the person in front of you stopped faster than is normal (i.e. was hit head on by an oncoming car), and I think that sets a good standard for what you should be prepared for. If a tree falls on the car in front of you and you hit them because they stopped instantly, it’s hardly your fault.

hgsgm 4y ago

1. Didn't stop on a dime. Slowed down, and was hit while still movin5. 2. It's impossible to be safe if someone is (illegally!) tailgating.

sidlls 4y ago

Have you ever driven the 101 in the Bay Area? I’ve never seen so many purely shit drivers in my life. And I lived in Florida for years. People routinely merge across from their on-ramp to the express lane doing 5-10 mph under the speed limit, brake suddenly when the car a dozen or more car lengths ahead of them flashes their lights, etc. It’s a pure shitshow.