5 ms·

> This article is insane fear mongering over nothing. It's not. How Outlook 2010 was cut out from downloading outlook.com mail is concerning. I want to know wh

by csdvrx 4y ago

> This article is insane fear mongering over nothing. It's not. How Outlook 2010 was cut out from downloading outlook.com mail is concerning. I want to know what their next shot will be. Excel is where I draw the line: if Windows 11 stop letting me use Excel 2010, I will resume my Linux migration attempt. Microsoft excuses about "security" don't pass my sniff tests and create risks for outlook.com: downloading mail with IMAP or POP over SSL isn't a security risk - or you're doing something seriously wrong.

phpisthebest 4y ago
>>How Outlook 2010 was cut out from downloading outlook.com mail is concerning. Why is that concerning? Outlook 2010 does not support the modern authentication and encryption that Exchange Online, and Outlook.com require. It only supports Basic Auth, which was turned off after a long and extended delay.
- throwifasd 4y ago
  [flagged]
  - Twisell 4y ago
    Well basic auth decommissioning was a shitshow for end business users. Our IT teams sure handled it gracefully for internal app we manage, but what about legacy production software from third parties vendors? IT is now facing enraged users on one front and shitty vendors on another. What to conclude? Stop trusting Microsoft for mail delivery and run your own mail stack (or pay someone to manage it on your own term). (Also get rid of shitty vendors but that is far easier said that done quickly because of Microsoft policy change)
    - phpisthebest 4y ago
      What legacy things where auth to AzureAD or Microsoft 365? Legacy things would/should be auth to OnPrem AD which was uneffected.
      - Twisell 4y ago
        Well our IT was sold on Cloud AD to replace OnPrem with retrocompatibilty with all existing app... And then basic auth deprecation was announced. But they still praise Microsoft, too much crap built on top of legacy MSFT plateform, unless someone decide to put big money on the table to get rid of this shit we are pretty much captive prey for MSFT salesmen...
- csdvrx 4y ago
  > Outlook 2010 does not support the modern authentication and encryption that Exchange Online, and Outlook.com require. Really? Then explain me why is it important? Why does it require this specific solution, and why other solutions like say using say POP over SSL are absolutely impossible? And if it's so absolutely required, and other solutions are absolutely impossible, why couldn't it be added? I mean, Google of all people managed to write a plugin that acts as a middleware between Outlook and gmail.com and solves all this, and unlike Microsoft they didn't have the benefit of having access to Outlook sourcecode or APIs, so clearly, something is off. To me, this means 1) the lack of "modern" auth and encryption is at best an excuse since 2) there's a proof of concept (from a competitor!) that 3) reliably works as a plugin which is using architectural choices ALREADY BAKED IN outlook. Maybe Microsoft didn't have the money (nah) human resources (possible) or lost the source code (but didn't it get posted during a hack?) of Office 2010 to tweak it and add the feature. However, since it came right after the end of the official support period, I seriously doubt it. I see that more like the same money grab that 1Password did: stop selling regular licenses (here office 2010), move to a subscription model (here office 365), introducing incompatible features as needed to "encourage" the migration (here "modern" auth) , and if customers still don't get the memo, just plainly break the product with some technobabble for plausible deniability (here "encryption" - works as well on the average techie as "think about the children!" works on the average voter)
  - phpisthebest 4y ago
    >>and why other solutions like say using say POP over SSL are absolutely impossible? And if it's so absolutely required, and other solutions are absolutely impossible, why couldn't it be added? MFA namely, it requires an interactive process. Other auth standards do not support a challenge-response exchange. Not to mention increasing encryption standards like TLS1.2 that are not included in that client. >>Google of all people managed to write a plugin that acts as a middleware between Outlook and gmail.com Ok and... MS is perfectly cable of doing the same but why? Outside of the problems with traffic and auth, old software has a HUGE security risk, personally I think it should be built into office that once EOL date is reached it simply bricks... People running old software are a risk to EVERYONE online, as these systems are normally the ones turned into botnets, and other control centers for ransomware.
hef19898 4y ago
Sometimes I wonder if people, including MS, realize how valuable Excel is...
- csdvrx 4y ago
  This so much! TBH I care more about Excel 2010 than Windows 10, 11 or whatever. So that's where I draw the line: if the OS stops letting me run Excel 2010, it's not Excel I'll change, but the OS that'll get the boot. I've already got a good experience running Excel 2007 on Wine. Sure I'd prefer keeping Windows 11 because I prefer the UI, but Excel is just more important than anything else.
hattmall 4y ago
Just run old windows versions with your old office in a virtual machine. Its simple to set up and with a modestly decent system there's no performance lags, mine is 10+ years old. I keep them like that and have virtual machines for individual software packages I don't want being impacted by changes. You can also easily clone or move the entire OS and system among computers and have backups.
- csdvrx 4y ago
  > Just run old windows versions with your old office in a virtual machine I don't like VMs. I prefer technical solutions like Wine. And if I go this way, I might as well give the boot to Windows to run Wine on Linux: all I really need is AHK, Office, Edge, and a good Terminal. From my last Linux experiences, I already know Office works great on Wine. Edge is wonderful too, first class citizen on Ubuntu (oh firefox snap, please die already lol) I'd have to check how well AHK, then mintty or Windows Terminal runs on Wine (Linux terminals offer an abysmal user experience), but I'm ready to do that if that's what it takes to keep Office 2010 running baremetal. I've been using Office 2007 then 2010 since uni (and back then they were already getting long in the teeth and Office 365 was already being pushed) and ... I don't ever plan to stop as I like many small details, like how Word starts faster than the new notepad.
jeffreygoesto 4y ago
Why are you waiting or need yet another reason? You could migrate now, slowly and controlled and not in a hurry and anger, when your program stops working?
- csdvrx 4y ago
  Because if it isn't broken (yet) I'm not fixing it. I'd rather have Microsoft reconsider their move with the data in hand than waste my time on what may (or may not) happen.

by csdvrx 4y ago

phpisthebest 4y ago

>>How Outlook 2010 was cut out from downloading outlook.com mail is concerning. Why is that concerning? Outlook 2010 does not support the modern authentication and encryption that Exchange Online, and Outlook.com require. It only supports Basic Auth, which was turned off after a long and extended delay.

throwifasd 4y ago
[flagged]
- Twisell 4y ago
  Well basic auth decommissioning was a shitshow for end business users. Our IT teams sure handled it gracefully for internal app we manage, but what about legacy production software from third parties vendors? IT is now facing enraged users on one front and shitty vendors on another. What to conclude? Stop trusting Microsoft for mail delivery and run your own mail stack (or pay someone to manage it on your own term). (Also get rid of shitty vendors but that is far easier said that done quickly because of Microsoft policy change)
  - phpisthebest 4y ago
    What legacy things where auth to AzureAD or Microsoft 365? Legacy things would/should be auth to OnPrem AD which was uneffected.
    - Twisell 4y ago
      Well our IT was sold on Cloud AD to replace OnPrem with retrocompatibilty with all existing app... And then basic auth deprecation was announced. But they still praise Microsoft, too much crap built on top of legacy MSFT plateform, unless someone decide to put big money on the table to get rid of this shit we are pretty much captive prey for MSFT salesmen...
csdvrx 4y ago
> Outlook 2010 does not support the modern authentication and encryption that Exchange Online, and Outlook.com require. Really? Then explain me why is it important? Why does it require this specific solution, and why other solutions like say using say POP over SSL are absolutely impossible? And if it's so absolutely required, and other solutions are absolutely impossible, why couldn't it be added? I mean, Google of all people managed to write a plugin that acts as a middleware between Outlook and gmail.com and solves all this, and unlike Microsoft they didn't have the benefit of having access to Outlook sourcecode or APIs, so clearly, something is off. To me, this means 1) the lack of "modern" auth and encryption is at best an excuse since 2) there's a proof of concept (from a competitor!) that 3) reliably works as a plugin which is using architectural choices ALREADY BAKED IN outlook. Maybe Microsoft didn't have the money (nah) human resources (possible) or lost the source code (but didn't it get posted during a hack?) of Office 2010 to tweak it and add the feature. However, since it came right after the end of the official support period, I seriously doubt it. I see that more like the same money grab that 1Password did: stop selling regular licenses (here office 2010), move to a subscription model (here office 365), introducing incompatible features as needed to "encourage" the migration (here "modern" auth) , and if customers still don't get the memo, just plainly break the product with some technobabble for plausible deniability (here "encryption" - works as well on the average techie as "think about the children!" works on the average voter)
- phpisthebest 4y ago
  >>and why other solutions like say using say POP over SSL are absolutely impossible? And if it's so absolutely required, and other solutions are absolutely impossible, why couldn't it be added? MFA namely, it requires an interactive process. Other auth standards do not support a challenge-response exchange. Not to mention increasing encryption standards like TLS1.2 that are not included in that client. >>Google of all people managed to write a plugin that acts as a middleware between Outlook and gmail.com Ok and... MS is perfectly cable of doing the same but why? Outside of the problems with traffic and auth, old software has a HUGE security risk, personally I think it should be built into office that once EOL date is reached it simply bricks... People running old software are a risk to EVERYONE online, as these systems are normally the ones turned into botnets, and other control centers for ransomware.

hef19898 4y ago

Sometimes I wonder if people, including MS, realize how valuable Excel is...

csdvrx 4y ago
This so much! TBH I care more about Excel 2010 than Windows 10, 11 or whatever. So that's where I draw the line: if the OS stops letting me run Excel 2010, it's not Excel I'll change, but the OS that'll get the boot. I've already got a good experience running Excel 2007 on Wine. Sure I'd prefer keeping Windows 11 because I prefer the UI, but Excel is just more important than anything else.

hattmall 4y ago

Just run old windows versions with your old office in a virtual machine. Its simple to set up and with a modestly decent system there's no performance lags, mine is 10+ years old. I keep them like that and have virtual machines for individual software packages I don't want being impacted by changes. You can also easily clone or move the entire OS and system among computers and have backups.

csdvrx 4y ago
> Just run old windows versions with your old office in a virtual machine I don't like VMs. I prefer technical solutions like Wine. And if I go this way, I might as well give the boot to Windows to run Wine on Linux: all I really need is AHK, Office, Edge, and a good Terminal. From my last Linux experiences, I already know Office works great on Wine. Edge is wonderful too, first class citizen on Ubuntu (oh firefox snap, please die already lol) I'd have to check how well AHK, then mintty or Windows Terminal runs on Wine (Linux terminals offer an abysmal user experience), but I'm ready to do that if that's what it takes to keep Office 2010 running baremetal. I've been using Office 2007 then 2010 since uni (and back then they were already getting long in the teeth and Office 365 was already being pushed) and ... I don't ever plan to stop as I like many small details, like how Word starts faster than the new notepad.

jeffreygoesto 4y ago

Why are you waiting or need yet another reason? You could migrate now, slowly and controlled and not in a hurry and anger, when your program stops working?

csdvrx 4y ago
Because if it isn't broken (yet) I'm not fixing it. I'd rather have Microsoft reconsider their move with the data in hand than waste my time on what may (or may not) happen.