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Oh, that’s genius. I was looking at the photo wondering why they used the cheapest flimsy laminated particle board garbage on the cabinetry instead of real woo

Oh, that’s genius. I was looking at the photo wondering why they used the cheapest flimsy laminated particle board garbage on the cabinetry instead of real wood. For the prototype. That they use to try to sell the thing. But no, they’re not actually being cheap. They chose painted cardboard instead of real construction materials because it is biodegradable. I love it.

voisin 4y ago
Could also have to do with reducing weight.
- jasonkester 4y ago
  I dunno. I know lots of people living in their van conversions, and every one of them uses nice looking, lightweight wood for all those surfaces. In addition to weighing less than plastic coated particleboard, you can actually run a router along the edges so you don’t bark yourself on the corner of that table every time you walk past. But this way saves four dollars and looks modern, so mass produced RVs use it.
dredmorbius 4y ago
For EVs, the typical challenges are 1) cramming enough battery into the vehicle, 2) managing that battery effectively (a major win of Tesla AFAIU), and 3) lightweighting the ever-loving ship out of everything. For aircraft, there's the additional aim of eliminating the on-board pilot through automation, remote control, or both, to increase passenger / cargo / payload capacity. You see this in drones as well as it being a clear goal in short-haul (< 300km typically) "commuter" aircraft proposals. In the case of Winnebago, I suspect that there are the dual goals of hitting maximum vehicle curb weight goals (batteries are heavy) and reducing overall vehicle mass to maximise range. "Biodegradable" is all but certainly a secondary or incidental consideration and/or marketing hype. Though reducing waste-stream is a Good Thing™.
- AtlasBarfed 4y ago
  Fitting a battery won't be an issue in larger RVs. Look at a c class, you can use the entire underside. So you have way more space than even the a semi tractor has. The skateboard design of evs should work great in RV. More space, lower center of gravity, more storage. You can probably take the base battery I'm the platform and strap an additional range extension battery in the back, that would likely be a lot more upgradeable, and just charge the driving battery with the extension battery for more range. Or you could choose between an extension battery or an ice generator / range extender, or have both.
  - dredmorbius 4y ago
    Matching the battery size to the necessary capacity is a probable issue, especially where GVW and drag coefficient increase. In the case of tractor-trailers, effective range remains on the order of single-digit miles / km, though I suspect keeping total vehicle weight within limits is a major part of that as well. Yes, the undercarriage affords a large potential battery storage volume, but that's not the only consideration. Range-extending battery trailers is a concept I've been suggesting for a number of years --- that would apply to standard passenger vehicles as well, and would also make for shorter charge-stops as the entire trailer could be swapped out. Battery condition and the usual issues of distributed / common ownership would of course be factors.
    - AtlasBarfed 4y ago
      I had precisely the same idea. The range extending trailer can be ICE generator, hydrogen-whatever color fuel cell, batteries. Precharged for fast swap. Common ownership is not that hard, they are for range extension, so you have a network of swap sites where you swap the trailer you rented. I don't understand what you mean by the single-digit miles/km. I know demonstrations in EV land are to be viewed with skepticism, but Tesla did demo a near-megawatt Tesla semi tractor that took a full gross weight load 500 miles. Granted that was a flatbed trailer with some concrete barriers so presumably better aerodynamics. An RV made from the Tesla semi as a platform doesn't need to haul anywhere near that amount of weight, doesn't have the problematic boundary between tractor and trailer (it will be one vehicle, not towing an RV). So one would expect a megawatt-sized tesla tractor as a platform, then about 12-20,000 more pounds for the RV portion... that is WAY underneath an 80,000 GVM even if the tractor is 20-30,000 lbs alone. So if a Tesla semi-derived RV has better aerodynamics that then overall tractor-trailer demonstration, that implies 600-700 miles range if the RV is half of 80,000lbs from the demonstration. What am I missing?
insane_dreamer 4y ago
Yeah but if it’s not durable, depending on the type of use it’ll need to be replace sooner which is bad for the customer (and doesn’t help the environment)

voisin 4y ago

Could also have to do with reducing weight.

jasonkester 4y ago
I dunno. I know lots of people living in their van conversions, and every one of them uses nice looking, lightweight wood for all those surfaces. In addition to weighing less than plastic coated particleboard, you can actually run a router along the edges so you don’t bark yourself on the corner of that table every time you walk past. But this way saves four dollars and looks modern, so mass produced RVs use it.

dredmorbius 4y ago

For EVs, the typical challenges are 1) cramming enough battery into the vehicle, 2) managing that battery effectively (a major win of Tesla AFAIU), and 3) lightweighting the ever-loving ship out of everything. For aircraft, there's the additional aim of eliminating the on-board pilot through automation, remote control, or both, to increase passenger / cargo / payload capacity. You see this in drones as well as it being a clear goal in short-haul (< 300km typically) "commuter" aircraft proposals. In the case of Winnebago, I suspect that there are the dual goals of hitting maximum vehicle curb weight goals (batteries are heavy) and reducing overall vehicle mass to maximise range. "Biodegradable" is all but certainly a secondary or incidental consideration and/or marketing hype. Though reducing waste-stream is a Good Thing™.

AtlasBarfed 4y ago
Fitting a battery won't be an issue in larger RVs. Look at a c class, you can use the entire underside. So you have way more space than even the a semi tractor has. The skateboard design of evs should work great in RV. More space, lower center of gravity, more storage. You can probably take the base battery I'm the platform and strap an additional range extension battery in the back, that would likely be a lot more upgradeable, and just charge the driving battery with the extension battery for more range. Or you could choose between an extension battery or an ice generator / range extender, or have both.
- dredmorbius 4y ago
  Matching the battery size to the necessary capacity is a probable issue, especially where GVW and drag coefficient increase. In the case of tractor-trailers, effective range remains on the order of single-digit miles / km, though I suspect keeping total vehicle weight within limits is a major part of that as well. Yes, the undercarriage affords a large potential battery storage volume, but that's not the only consideration. Range-extending battery trailers is a concept I've been suggesting for a number of years --- that would apply to standard passenger vehicles as well, and would also make for shorter charge-stops as the entire trailer could be swapped out. Battery condition and the usual issues of distributed / common ownership would of course be factors.
  - AtlasBarfed 4y ago
    I had precisely the same idea. The range extending trailer can be ICE generator, hydrogen-whatever color fuel cell, batteries. Precharged for fast swap. Common ownership is not that hard, they are for range extension, so you have a network of swap sites where you swap the trailer you rented. I don't understand what you mean by the single-digit miles/km. I know demonstrations in EV land are to be viewed with skepticism, but Tesla did demo a near-megawatt Tesla semi tractor that took a full gross weight load 500 miles. Granted that was a flatbed trailer with some concrete barriers so presumably better aerodynamics. An RV made from the Tesla semi as a platform doesn't need to haul anywhere near that amount of weight, doesn't have the problematic boundary between tractor and trailer (it will be one vehicle, not towing an RV). So one would expect a megawatt-sized tesla tractor as a platform, then about 12-20,000 more pounds for the RV portion... that is WAY underneath an 80,000 GVM even if the tractor is 20-30,000 lbs alone. So if a Tesla semi-derived RV has better aerodynamics that then overall tractor-trailer demonstration, that implies 600-700 miles range if the RV is half of 80,000lbs from the demonstration. What am I missing?

insane_dreamer 4y ago

Yeah but if it’s not durable, depending on the type of use it’ll need to be replace sooner which is bad for the customer (and doesn’t help the environment)