6 ms·

Hopefully both "believe in science" folks and "I do my own research on substack" folks are paying attention. Science is really hard and, while government agenci

Hopefully both "believe in science" folks and "I do my own research on substack" folks are paying attention. Science is really hard and, while government agencies can do a better job than amateur substack research, they still screw up on regular basis. For example, CDC carb heavy food pyramid turned out to be a total hogwash and ruined health of countless people. You should probably still follow mainstream recommendation, because one must follow something and alternatives are less reliable on average. But you have no right to force everyone into it or shush them up when they discuss other opinions.

thaumasiotes 4y ago
> For example, CDC carb heavy food pyramid turned out to be a total hogwash and ruined health of countless people. I would guess that reality is closer to "the carb heavy food pyramid turned out to be total hogwash and had negligible impact because almost nobody cares what the government wants them to eat".
- jquery 4y ago
  You have to include the fact that the pyramid, while being hogwash, was still better than the average American diet of fast food and candy. So it may have been a net positive overall despite being existing somewhere on the scale from heavily flawed to total nonsense.
  - irthomasthomas 4y ago
    It really wasn't. Just lookup a graph of obesity over time and see if you can spot when the low fat diet was implemented by the U.S. government. Spoiler: https://cms-static.wehaacdn.com/hoards-com/images/Obesity-1980-chart.13136.jpg https://cms-static.wehaacdn.com/hoards-com/images/Obesity-19...
    - thaumasiotes 4y ago
      They're close. But the pyramid is not significant enough to account for that much change. Other things happened in 1980 too. (Also, your graph doesn't show obesity, and the pre-pyramid 45% rate would already be alarmingly high if it was obesity, which it isn't.)
      - irthomasthomas 4y ago
        It was alarmingly high and had been noted since the mid 1950s. That is why Ancel Keys, inventor of the lipid hypothesis and low fat diet, began researching the problem. They where responding to a heart disease and obesity epidemic. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK19623/figure/chartbook.f7/?report=objectonly https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK19623/figure/chartbook...
- SamoyedFurFluff 4y ago
  I disagree with this heavily, because the food pyramid is also the basis of government provided school lunches, other meal provisions, hospital nutrition for the very sick (diabetic/kidney failing/heart failing), meals for soldiers, and a wide variety of other nutritional programs. It’s not about what happens when you have a choice on what to eat but what information official sources use when you are reliant on another authority for meals. Edited to add that: it’s important to know why the food pyramid was created and the context of them. Government provided nutrition guidelines were used for meal provision during the Great Depression, food rationing during war, etc. and are still largely created by the USDA which answers to agribusiness and not medicine. (There are several news articles of the USDA actively withdrawing and editing nutritional guidelines due to agribusiness outcry!)
- irthomasthomas 4y ago
  That's not true. Just lookup when the low fat diet was introduced and look at the obesity trend. Or here is a page which spells it out [0]. People did listen. Before the 1980s, everyone made deep fat fried food at home. Now, deep fat fryers are very rare in homes. And even if you didn't listen, every institution from hospitals to prisons, schools and universities adopted the diet. Every major food maker and fast food chain adapted to the recommendations, and replaced high cholesterol fats for what they thought where healthier low-cholesterol oils. Now we know better, but there is still a determined element in our society pushing the old narrative, using increasingly shoddy epidemiology. https://www.awlr.org/blog/low-fat-challenge https://www.awlr.org/blog/low-fat-challenge
  - cafard 4y ago
    "Before the 1980s, everyone made deep fat fried food at home. Now, deep fat fryers are very rare in homes." In 1980, I was twenty-five, and had never lived in a household with a deep fat fryer. Occasionally I guess we had fried chicken from my grandmother's kitchen.
  - msrenee 4y ago
    I'm fairly confident the majority of people didn't have a dedicated deep fat fryer at home at any point in history. Unless you're actually referring to the sort of deep pot used on the stove for frying. In that case, then absolutely. A deep fat fryer in my mind is a standalone appliance. They definitely fried food in oil and lard rather than delicately avoiding fats. No sense wasting good bacon grease when you can toss some eggs in there. And some bread too. Nothing like toast all sopped up in bacon grease. For anyone saying citizens didn't listen to these experts, they've apparently never seen the magazine rack in the grocery store checkout. Or any of the millions of lifestyle articles and weight loss blogs informing desperate folks to run from anything with butter in it. I don't think my parents had a real stick of butter in the house until after I graduated high school. Low fat everything in that fridge until they saw me lose weight and gain so much more energy by eating low carb and high fat. When you've got teachers in the classroom teaching the food pyramid to elementary kids, you're going to have some kind of impact on the way people eat.
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
comfypotato 4y ago
Specifically to the article: the section titled “A murderous nurse at work—or just coincidence?” Correlates the shifts during which a particular nurse works and suspicious deaths occurring. If anyone has any know-how to interpret the following diagram, I’m open to some help here. Sorry if it annoys you to hear a devil’s advocate defending a potential murderer, but what if said nurse was just incompetent and people took advantage of her? (Or she was the primary person willing/forced to work shifts known to be ripe with gang activity.)

thaumasiotes 4y ago

> For example, CDC carb heavy food pyramid turned out to be a total hogwash and ruined health of countless people. I would guess that reality is closer to "the carb heavy food pyramid turned out to be total hogwash and had negligible impact because almost nobody cares what the government wants them to eat".

jquery 4y ago
You have to include the fact that the pyramid, while being hogwash, was still better than the average American diet of fast food and candy. So it may have been a net positive overall despite being existing somewhere on the scale from heavily flawed to total nonsense.
- irthomasthomas 4y ago
  It really wasn't. Just lookup a graph of obesity over time and see if you can spot when the low fat diet was implemented by the U.S. government. Spoiler: https://cms-static.wehaacdn.com/hoards-com/images/Obesity-1980-chart.13136.jpg https://cms-static.wehaacdn.com/hoards-com/images/Obesity-19...
  - thaumasiotes 4y ago
    They're close. But the pyramid is not significant enough to account for that much change. Other things happened in 1980 too. (Also, your graph doesn't show obesity, and the pre-pyramid 45% rate would already be alarmingly high if it was obesity, which it isn't.)
    - irthomasthomas 4y ago
      It was alarmingly high and had been noted since the mid 1950s. That is why Ancel Keys, inventor of the lipid hypothesis and low fat diet, began researching the problem. They where responding to a heart disease and obesity epidemic. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK19623/figure/chartbook.f7/?report=objectonly https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK19623/figure/chartbook...
SamoyedFurFluff 4y ago
I disagree with this heavily, because the food pyramid is also the basis of government provided school lunches, other meal provisions, hospital nutrition for the very sick (diabetic/kidney failing/heart failing), meals for soldiers, and a wide variety of other nutritional programs. It’s not about what happens when you have a choice on what to eat but what information official sources use when you are reliant on another authority for meals. Edited to add that: it’s important to know why the food pyramid was created and the context of them. Government provided nutrition guidelines were used for meal provision during the Great Depression, food rationing during war, etc. and are still largely created by the USDA which answers to agribusiness and not medicine. (There are several news articles of the USDA actively withdrawing and editing nutritional guidelines due to agribusiness outcry!)
irthomasthomas 4y ago
That's not true. Just lookup when the low fat diet was introduced and look at the obesity trend. Or here is a page which spells it out [0]. People did listen. Before the 1980s, everyone made deep fat fried food at home. Now, deep fat fryers are very rare in homes. And even if you didn't listen, every institution from hospitals to prisons, schools and universities adopted the diet. Every major food maker and fast food chain adapted to the recommendations, and replaced high cholesterol fats for what they thought where healthier low-cholesterol oils. Now we know better, but there is still a determined element in our society pushing the old narrative, using increasingly shoddy epidemiology. https://www.awlr.org/blog/low-fat-challenge https://www.awlr.org/blog/low-fat-challenge
- cafard 4y ago
  "Before the 1980s, everyone made deep fat fried food at home. Now, deep fat fryers are very rare in homes." In 1980, I was twenty-five, and had never lived in a household with a deep fat fryer. Occasionally I guess we had fried chicken from my grandmother's kitchen.
- msrenee 4y ago
  I'm fairly confident the majority of people didn't have a dedicated deep fat fryer at home at any point in history. Unless you're actually referring to the sort of deep pot used on the stove for frying. In that case, then absolutely. A deep fat fryer in my mind is a standalone appliance. They definitely fried food in oil and lard rather than delicately avoiding fats. No sense wasting good bacon grease when you can toss some eggs in there. And some bread too. Nothing like toast all sopped up in bacon grease. For anyone saying citizens didn't listen to these experts, they've apparently never seen the magazine rack in the grocery store checkout. Or any of the millions of lifestyle articles and weight loss blogs informing desperate folks to run from anything with butter in it. I don't think my parents had a real stick of butter in the house until after I graduated high school. Low fat everything in that fridge until they saw me lose weight and gain so much more energy by eating low carb and high fat. When you've got teachers in the classroom teaching the food pyramid to elementary kids, you're going to have some kind of impact on the way people eat.

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]

comfypotato 4y ago

Specifically to the article: the section titled “A murderous nurse at work—or just coincidence?” Correlates the shifts during which a particular nurse works and suspicious deaths occurring. If anyone has any know-how to interpret the following diagram, I’m open to some help here. Sorry if it annoys you to hear a devil’s advocate defending a potential murderer, but what if said nurse was just incompetent and people took advantage of her? (Or she was the primary person willing/forced to work shifts known to be ripe with gang activity.)