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Japan is the future that we in the West will never get. After almost 30 years of economic slowdown and demographic crisis Japan is still culturally cohesive, w

by chewz 4y ago

Japan is the future that we in the West will never get. After almost 30 years of economic slowdown and demographic crisis Japan is still culturally cohesive, well functioning society with fairly high standards of living shared more or less equally. Not stuck and split by endless internal conflicts and violence.. Also Japanese economy could be divided into productive part (Toyota's etc.) and unproductive (Mom and Pap shop run by 75 year olds). And the former is increasing it's productivity every year. I don't believe that in 25 years EU, China or US would be nowhere near levels of comfort and stability of today's Japan.

petre 4y ago
You seem to forget that Japan had at least 150 years of constant civil war. It's culturally cohesive because they force everyone into conformity. There's a story about a homeless castaway happily living on a secluded island, until they've found him, send him over to the mainland and banned him from ever returning. Which is probably why they have so many subcultures and emphasize on hobbies. https://www.tokyoweekender.com/2022/07/obsessed-irwin-wong-japan-subcultures/ https://www.tokyoweekender.com/2022/07/obsessed-irwin-wong-j... I wouldn't worry too much for them. I'd worry if I was Russia or China or North Korea if they are given a carte blanch for revival of militarism and left unchecked.
- ChuckNorris89 4y ago
  >It's culturally cohesive because they force everyone into conformity. As did modern Germany, France, Italy, Romania, Spain etc. No European country is 100% homogenous. They each have regions that have little in common culturally with the country but they were assimilated by force.
  - nicbou 4y ago
    This is in no way comparable. Cultural conformity is not being enforced in Europe. Not in schools, not at work, and not in general society. Definitely not to the level you'd experience in Japan.
    - ChuckNorris89 4y ago
      >Cultural conformity is not being enforced in Europe Not nearly as much now, but it was definitely enforced 100 to 50 or so years ago in most European countries to the point of being illegal to speak another language than the official local one and ethnic discrimination was rampant. Yes, also in schools and at work. See South Tyrol and Italy and there's other such examples in Europe. Conformity was definitely enforced. Glossing over this dark past doesn't change the fact that it happened here as well.
      - sam_lowry_ 4y ago
        France as well, even until very recently. The cancellation of the show about Lafayette and French Revolution in Puy-du-Fou is a good example none talk about publicly because politically unacceptable.
    - ekianjo 4y ago
      > Cultural conformity is not being enforced in Europe Of course its being enforced, especially in non-Federal countries. The TV usually speaks one language and no dialects, the education system is controlled by the head of the State, the same goes for media entities usually controlled by people close to the government.
      - nicbou 4y ago
        The difference is in the amount of zeal with which conformism is enforced. The social pressure to comform is ridiculously low in Europe and North America compared to most of the world. That a country's outlets speaks the majority language is not in the same league. I was thinking along the lines of gender roles, marrying late, having a different hair colour, or generally going against the flow, not the language TV shows are in.
  - petre 4y ago
    > No European country is 100% homogenous Hungary is close and in some way they have somewhat similar issues as Japan but to a lesser extent. In Greece they also don't have minorities, not oficially anyway, other than the muslims in Western Greece, Armenians and some Jews.
- throwawaybutwhy 4y ago
  > if they are given a carte blanch for revival of militarism and left unchecked. Japanese militarism has been going on for quite a while on slow burner. They can assemble nukes in half no time, they have aircraft carriers called 'destroyers', and they've changed the doctrine to first strike in response to NorK's missile tests. We are rapidly falling into the abyss.
bamboozled 4y ago
What I would challenge you on is this...why isn't it moving more forwards, it could still be growing, innovating and looking more into the future, it's population could and should be growing or at least quite stable, but it's not. People are overworked, not having children [1], the education system isn't really optimal (favors rote learning over everything else) and there is a lot of loneliness. I do agree, it's a good place, even a great place, I love it, but it could be much much better at the same time. Does it need to be better? Maybe not, that's hard to say. What is a concern is the declining population, a lot of the stability comes from the hard working, financially conservative, older, dying generation of people and it's not getting replenished anytime soon. The country is holding up well, but IMO if you look carefully, things are aging in Japan and I don't see where the demand for new things, infrastructure, ideas etc is going to be coming from. Honestly, people make comments about Japan like, it's harmonious, culturally cohesive and well functioning are seeing it from the outside, which, like everywhere else always looks a bit prettier. A lot of the harmony does come at the cost of people's inability to express themselves. There's a lot of "personal injuries" on the Tokyo subway, I have a feeling a little bit of that comes form repression. I'm definitely not saying it's a bad place, I'm saying it's probably not dissimilar to many other places really, there are good aspect to it and there are bad. Mostly people think it's great because they don't and can't really understand it. Japanese language isn't easy to grasp and people rarely tell you what's on their mind even if you can speak to them. I believe the discourse in the west is harder to cope with on a personal level, but it is and important part of democracy which I do feel is lacking in many part of the world, including Japan. I love the harmony I experience when visiting, but something inside tells me change is important, at least if only occasionally. Interesting times ahead no doubt. [1] https://asia.nikkei.com/Spotlight/Society/Japan-leads-world-in-childless-middle-aged-women https://asia.nikkei.com/Spotlight/Society/Japan-leads-world-...

by chewz 4y ago

petre 4y ago

You seem to forget that Japan had at least 150 years of constant civil war. It's culturally cohesive because they force everyone into conformity. There's a story about a homeless castaway happily living on a secluded island, until they've found him, send him over to the mainland and banned him from ever returning. Which is probably why they have so many subcultures and emphasize on hobbies. https://www.tokyoweekender.com/2022/07/obsessed-irwin-wong-japan-subcultures/ https://www.tokyoweekender.com/2022/07/obsessed-irwin-wong-j... I wouldn't worry too much for them. I'd worry if I was Russia or China or North Korea if they are given a carte blanch for revival of militarism and left unchecked.

ChuckNorris89 4y ago
>It's culturally cohesive because they force everyone into conformity. As did modern Germany, France, Italy, Romania, Spain etc. No European country is 100% homogenous. They each have regions that have little in common culturally with the country but they were assimilated by force.
- nicbou 4y ago
  This is in no way comparable. Cultural conformity is not being enforced in Europe. Not in schools, not at work, and not in general society. Definitely not to the level you'd experience in Japan.
  - ChuckNorris89 4y ago
    >Cultural conformity is not being enforced in Europe Not nearly as much now, but it was definitely enforced 100 to 50 or so years ago in most European countries to the point of being illegal to speak another language than the official local one and ethnic discrimination was rampant. Yes, also in schools and at work. See South Tyrol and Italy and there's other such examples in Europe. Conformity was definitely enforced. Glossing over this dark past doesn't change the fact that it happened here as well.
    - sam_lowry_ 4y ago
      France as well, even until very recently. The cancellation of the show about Lafayette and French Revolution in Puy-du-Fou is a good example none talk about publicly because politically unacceptable.
  - ekianjo 4y ago
    > Cultural conformity is not being enforced in Europe Of course its being enforced, especially in non-Federal countries. The TV usually speaks one language and no dialects, the education system is controlled by the head of the State, the same goes for media entities usually controlled by people close to the government.
    - nicbou 4y ago
      The difference is in the amount of zeal with which conformism is enforced. The social pressure to comform is ridiculously low in Europe and North America compared to most of the world. That a country's outlets speaks the majority language is not in the same league. I was thinking along the lines of gender roles, marrying late, having a different hair colour, or generally going against the flow, not the language TV shows are in.
- petre 4y ago
  > No European country is 100% homogenous Hungary is close and in some way they have somewhat similar issues as Japan but to a lesser extent. In Greece they also don't have minorities, not oficially anyway, other than the muslims in Western Greece, Armenians and some Jews.
throwawaybutwhy 4y ago
> if they are given a carte blanch for revival of militarism and left unchecked. Japanese militarism has been going on for quite a while on slow burner. They can assemble nukes in half no time, they have aircraft carriers called 'destroyers', and they've changed the doctrine to first strike in response to NorK's missile tests. We are rapidly falling into the abyss.

bamboozled 4y ago

What I would challenge you on is this...why isn't it moving more forwards, it could still be growing, innovating and looking more into the future, it's population could and should be growing or at least quite stable, but it's not. People are overworked, not having children [1], the education system isn't really optimal (favors rote learning over everything else) and there is a lot of loneliness. I do agree, it's a good place, even a great place, I love it, but it could be much much better at the same time. Does it need to be better? Maybe not, that's hard to say. What is a concern is the declining population, a lot of the stability comes from the hard working, financially conservative, older, dying generation of people and it's not getting replenished anytime soon. The country is holding up well, but IMO if you look carefully, things are aging in Japan and I don't see where the demand for new things, infrastructure, ideas etc is going to be coming from. Honestly, people make comments about Japan like, it's harmonious, culturally cohesive and well functioning are seeing it from the outside, which, like everywhere else always looks a bit prettier. A lot of the harmony does come at the cost of people's inability to express themselves. There's a lot of "personal injuries" on the Tokyo subway, I have a feeling a little bit of that comes form repression. I'm definitely not saying it's a bad place, I'm saying it's probably not dissimilar to many other places really, there are good aspect to it and there are bad. Mostly people think it's great because they don't and can't really understand it. Japanese language isn't easy to grasp and people rarely tell you what's on their mind even if you can speak to them. I believe the discourse in the west is harder to cope with on a personal level, but it is and important part of democracy which I do feel is lacking in many part of the world, including Japan. I love the harmony I experience when visiting, but something inside tells me change is important, at least if only occasionally. Interesting times ahead no doubt. [1] https://asia.nikkei.com/Spotlight/Society/Japan-leads-world-in-childless-middle-aged-women https://asia.nikkei.com/Spotlight/Society/Japan-leads-world-...