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"This is exactly why I hate Apple. they apply a totalitarian control on their devices; and it affects their users (who are not always aware of that) and carrier

"This is exactly why I hate Apple. they apply a totalitarian control on their devices; and it affects their users (who are not always aware of that) and carriers have at least competition." Emotion based arguments like "I love, I hate x" are making top news at HN; which is sad. Especially if the article clearly comes from publicly known fanboys.

DeusExMachina 15y ago
Please notice that, while you complain that emotion based arguments like "I love, I hate x" make it to the top of HN, you yourself started your comment with That is exactly why I hate Apple.
- diminish 15y ago
  Ahh that was the rhetoric, to show everyone how it sounds. "I hate Apple, because" or "I hate Verizon because" - type of arguments can be used interchangeably with a simple change of subject. Here the writer has an emotional affinity to Apple, or Verizon and accepts any weird policies coming from one, but does not at all trust the other.
  - DeusExMachina 15y ago
    I did not notice the quotes when I read your comment the first time. Did you add them afterwards? Of course that changes the meaning of your post.
  - stonemetal 15y ago
    Color me confused, I love(or hate) X isn't an argument. It is a statement of position. The part after the because is the argument. Hopefully that part isn't interchangeable.
    - diminish 15y ago
      Check this postmodern deconstructive text to show the confusing arguments in the current case; "I hate Verizon for their control(crappy software) on my device, I hate Google because it lets Verizon control my device, but I love Apple because they don't let Verizon control my device, because they control my device and kick competing platforms, and porn from the app store; and doomed me to use only AT&T for years, so I hate total control, and I hate Apple because of its total control, they control everything; but they do it for me, and Verizon does it for money or for its customers?"
alperakgun 15y ago
Love & hate as an argument is recently a lot common at HN, especially MG is making headlines several times a month, with just another way to show his love for Apple and hate for .. anything else.
Gorbzel 15y ago
Did you even read the article before criticizing? Seriously, I hate to ask things of that sort on HN, but Siegler specifically points out that his problem with Google in this matter is they use the faux idea of "open" to rile pro-Droid folks like yourself at the expense of true progress vis-a-vis the carriers. Call people fanboys all you want, but it's just a copout on your part. You hate totalitarian control on your devices? Explain how you're okay with Verizon telling you that you can't have Google Wallet on the Nexus, carrier-dictated releases of upgrades, locked bootloaders, mandated two-year contracts and various other anti-open dictates that Google just goes along with because they're the carrier's bitch. Say what you will about Apple, but at least they've always been consistent about the experience they're going for with the walled garden ecosystem and they have wrestled control away from the carriers. Meanwhile, Google sold us all out of net neutrality for marketshare.
- enobrev 15y ago
  I'm not sure I understand what's so "faux" about the openness of Android. It's not just an idea: http://source.android.com/source/downloading.html http://source.android.com/source/downloading.html Being that it's an open source project, why wouldn't the carriers have the freedom to add or remove what they want? I don't necessarily like the carrier builds, but they're free to do with Android what they please. That's the general idea behind open source. I'm not disagreeing with your conclusion that Apple is consistent. And there are certainly closed source Google Apps for Android. But your implication that Android isn't open source is a bit silly.
  - thatjoshguy 15y ago
    > But your implication that Android isn't open source is a bit silly. I'm don't think anyone is arguing this fact. Android, generally, isn't 'open' in the sense that it is totally controlled by the carriers.
    - bane 15y ago
      I would like to introduce you to http://www.cyanogenmod.com/ http://www.cyanogenmod.com/ http://miuiandroid.com/ http://miuiandroid.com/ two efforts among many that demonstrate that it isn't "totally" controlled by the carriers.
gm 15y ago
Amen brother.

DeusExMachina 15y ago

Please notice that, while you complain that emotion based arguments like "I love, I hate x" make it to the top of HN, you yourself started your comment with That is exactly why I hate Apple.

diminish 15y ago
Ahh that was the rhetoric, to show everyone how it sounds. "I hate Apple, because" or "I hate Verizon because" - type of arguments can be used interchangeably with a simple change of subject. Here the writer has an emotional affinity to Apple, or Verizon and accepts any weird policies coming from one, but does not at all trust the other.
- DeusExMachina 15y ago
  I did not notice the quotes when I read your comment the first time. Did you add them afterwards? Of course that changes the meaning of your post.
- stonemetal 15y ago
  Color me confused, I love(or hate) X isn't an argument. It is a statement of position. The part after the because is the argument. Hopefully that part isn't interchangeable.
  - diminish 15y ago
    Check this postmodern deconstructive text to show the confusing arguments in the current case; "I hate Verizon for their control(crappy software) on my device, I hate Google because it lets Verizon control my device, but I love Apple because they don't let Verizon control my device, because they control my device and kick competing platforms, and porn from the app store; and doomed me to use only AT&T for years, so I hate total control, and I hate Apple because of its total control, they control everything; but they do it for me, and Verizon does it for money or for its customers?"

alperakgun 15y ago

Love & hate as an argument is recently a lot common at HN, especially MG is making headlines several times a month, with just another way to show his love for Apple and hate for .. anything else.

Gorbzel 15y ago

Did you even read the article before criticizing? Seriously, I hate to ask things of that sort on HN, but Siegler specifically points out that his problem with Google in this matter is they use the faux idea of "open" to rile pro-Droid folks like yourself at the expense of true progress vis-a-vis the carriers. Call people fanboys all you want, but it's just a copout on your part. You hate totalitarian control on your devices? Explain how you're okay with Verizon telling you that you can't have Google Wallet on the Nexus, carrier-dictated releases of upgrades, locked bootloaders, mandated two-year contracts and various other anti-open dictates that Google just goes along with because they're the carrier's bitch. Say what you will about Apple, but at least they've always been consistent about the experience they're going for with the walled garden ecosystem and they have wrestled control away from the carriers. Meanwhile, Google sold us all out of net neutrality for marketshare.

enobrev 15y ago
I'm not sure I understand what's so "faux" about the openness of Android. It's not just an idea: http://source.android.com/source/downloading.html http://source.android.com/source/downloading.html Being that it's an open source project, why wouldn't the carriers have the freedom to add or remove what they want? I don't necessarily like the carrier builds, but they're free to do with Android what they please. That's the general idea behind open source. I'm not disagreeing with your conclusion that Apple is consistent. And there are certainly closed source Google Apps for Android. But your implication that Android isn't open source is a bit silly.
- thatjoshguy 15y ago
  > But your implication that Android isn't open source is a bit silly. I'm don't think anyone is arguing this fact. Android, generally, isn't 'open' in the sense that it is totally controlled by the carriers.
  - bane 15y ago
    I would like to introduce you to http://www.cyanogenmod.com/ http://www.cyanogenmod.com/ http://miuiandroid.com/ http://miuiandroid.com/ two efforts among many that demonstrate that it isn't "totally" controlled by the carriers.

gm 15y ago

Amen brother.