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You already know the answer to that, as it has been explained to you dozens of times. Once again: renewables+storage, backed by combined-cycle turbines. They w

You already know the answer to that, as it has been explained to you dozens of times. Once again: renewables+storage, backed by combined-cycle turbines. They will powered by NG until synthetic fuel becomes plentiful. Right now, most storage is at hydroelectric plants built in past decades, with small amounts of battery. In the future, it will still be small amounts of battery, along with plenty of other storage, much of it underground hydrogen and hilltop hydro. There is no hint of any shortage of hills, most places. Flat places will use other methods.

Manuel_D 4y ago
Yes it's been explained repeatedly - but almost always in vague terms referring to "storage" but carefully avoiding any nuanced discussion of what form of storage. When they do mention storage, they mention infeasible forms of storage. I'm happy to explain the shortcomings of the ones you listed: "Small amounts of battery" are still amounts that would take centuries to provision. Again, I don't think people realize that 1 day's worth of storage is well over a hundred times annual battery production. Hydroelectric storage requires more than just a hill. It requires a reservoir on top of the hill, another reservoir on the base of the hill, and access to a lake or river to fill these reservoirs. This is a much more specific set of geographic features than just "a hill". And lastly, nobody has successfully operated a hydrogen electrolysis storage facility. This is totally unproven technology.
- moloch-hai 4y ago
  As has been explained to you numerous times, reservoirs are normally constructed, not found, and no lake or river is needed. So, you really do just need a hill with unused top. (Penstocks and turbines are also constructed.) There will be no need for "one day's" worth of batteries, but in any case battery production is ramping up fast, and that will continue as long as demand increases. Numerous storage technologies will be used. It is not clear yet which will be cheapest. Hydrogen might not be among them.
  - Manuel_D 4y ago
    You need a lake to fill the artificial reservoir. Pumping water over long distances is prohibitively expensive. You also need a lower reservoir, otherwise how do you refill the upper reservoir once it's been drained? Its more than just a hill. Numerous storage technologies are proposed. And you're just assuming that one of the proposed solutions will work.
    - pfdietz 4y ago
      Pumped hydro projects can be filled with water pumped from wells.
    - moloch-hai 4y ago
      You now insist that no hilltop pumped-hydro storage without a river exists? It is an odd choice of falsehood to insist upon, when it may so easily be looked up.
- Schroedingersat 4y ago
  It has been explained repeatedly in very specific terms. 3 hours of cyclable storage (primarily in the form of pumped hydro because the exaggerations about geographic limits are another lie, but also in batteries) and a few tens to a few hundred of hours per year of high power dispatchable generation (again, existing hydro and biogas covers the overwhelming majority of this). With a list of technologies and insignificant behavior changes that assist which make it even easier thas is too long to state.

Manuel_D 4y ago

Yes it's been explained repeatedly - but almost always in vague terms referring to "storage" but carefully avoiding any nuanced discussion of what form of storage. When they do mention storage, they mention infeasible forms of storage. I'm happy to explain the shortcomings of the ones you listed: "Small amounts of battery" are still amounts that would take centuries to provision. Again, I don't think people realize that 1 day's worth of storage is well over a hundred times annual battery production. Hydroelectric storage requires more than just a hill. It requires a reservoir on top of the hill, another reservoir on the base of the hill, and access to a lake or river to fill these reservoirs. This is a much more specific set of geographic features than just "a hill". And lastly, nobody has successfully operated a hydrogen electrolysis storage facility. This is totally unproven technology.

moloch-hai 4y ago
As has been explained to you numerous times, reservoirs are normally constructed, not found, and no lake or river is needed. So, you really do just need a hill with unused top. (Penstocks and turbines are also constructed.) There will be no need for "one day's" worth of batteries, but in any case battery production is ramping up fast, and that will continue as long as demand increases. Numerous storage technologies will be used. It is not clear yet which will be cheapest. Hydrogen might not be among them.
- Manuel_D 4y ago
  You need a lake to fill the artificial reservoir. Pumping water over long distances is prohibitively expensive. You also need a lower reservoir, otherwise how do you refill the upper reservoir once it's been drained? Its more than just a hill. Numerous storage technologies are proposed. And you're just assuming that one of the proposed solutions will work.
  - pfdietz 4y ago
    Pumped hydro projects can be filled with water pumped from wells.
  - moloch-hai 4y ago
    You now insist that no hilltop pumped-hydro storage without a river exists? It is an odd choice of falsehood to insist upon, when it may so easily be looked up.
Schroedingersat 4y ago
It has been explained repeatedly in very specific terms. 3 hours of cyclable storage (primarily in the form of pumped hydro because the exaggerations about geographic limits are another lie, but also in batteries) and a few tens to a few hundred of hours per year of high power dispatchable generation (again, existing hydro and biogas covers the overwhelming majority of this). With a list of technologies and insignificant behavior changes that assist which make it even easier thas is too long to state.