5 ms·

I worked on custom EEGs and all I have to say is, "so long and thanks for all the fish!" Seriously though, is this really what this beautiful tech will end up

I worked on custom EEGs and all I have to say is, "so long and thanks for all the fish!" Seriously though, is this really what this beautiful tech will end up being!? Come on people - have some humanity - think beyond these neanderthal brain use cases. These examples show little imagination, almost as if they are already shepherded by an AI. This tech could create true equality like nothing we've ever seen. No matter where you are on earth, even with the poorest of educational systems, we could know what you naturally 'master' with this tech. That means knowing what subjects and concepts you can commit to memory with a gifted efficiency!! Imagine the sorting hat coming to you and picking you out to join the guild of X or Y! But instead we want to talk about "productivity" and "throughput" - as if everyone should be treated as an input / output device for yet another interface. "That's only one bit of information" - too many times I heard that... but guess what, sometimes that's all it takes between contributing to the whole or selecting out. Sad, sad, sad.

KRAKRISMOTT 4y ago
Current dry electrode technology is nowhere close to being useful for high fidelity applications. You will need a breakthrough in ML/signal processing that can solve the cocktail party problem for a very large n. (Given the current advances in ML, I won't be surprised if we start seeing improvements in this area) To quote professor Mike Cohen, all of neuroscience (the EEG BCI part at least) is source separation. https://youtube.com/@mikexcohen1/videos https://youtube.com/@mikexcohen1/videos
- anonymouse008 4y ago
  The author of the “great text” of EEG - where we started, too. Yeah; I was surprised with our results, but if you follow his instruction, there’s a lot one can glean.
andrei_says_ 4y ago
Funny thing - in business (as I’m war) the ones with least compassion win. So these same people end up with the money and decide how to spend it. It’s up to us the techies and scientists (with no money) to say no.
- Quarrelsome 4y ago
  > Funny thing - in business (as I’m war) the ones with least compassion win. I don't remember that happening in 1945. I think being compassionate has some significant propaganda advantages that you are failing to value. To return from war to business I would suggest that working for a company that is compassionate might make hiring good candidates much easier in contrast to a company that isn't. Combined with assumed turnover and associated loss of productivity the compassion could translate into a competitive advantage.
YeBanKo 4y ago
> That means knowing what subjects and concepts you can commit to memory with a gifted efficiency!! Imagine the sorting hat coming to you and picking you out to join the guild of X or Y! You are describing Isaac Asimov’s novel “Profession”.
- bluefirebrand 4y ago
  I was thinking this sounded a bit like Gattaca myself (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gattaca https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gattaca) Except measuring brainwaves instead of genetics.
- poszlem 4y ago
  We absolutely go in the direction of the SF dystopias. Another great example is https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Limes_inferior https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Limes_inferior from 1982.
  - int_19h 4y ago
    "Profession" is not quite a dystopia, though, considering the ending.
  - LargoLasskhyfv 4y ago
    That seems to be a very interesting author. Sadly no english translations of his works seem to exist? Kurva!
Quarrelsome 4y ago
> Imagine the sorting hat coming to you and picking you out to join the guild of X or Y! Is it really reliable to such an extent? It sounds a bit "IQ 2.0" to me and outside of predicting university admission likelihood I feel like IQ isn't necessarily a strong indicator of much.
- anonymouse008 4y ago
  I was continuously shocked at how well we could figure out mastery vs guessing by combining adaptive testing with a read of cognitive engagement.
HeyLaughingBoy 4y ago
> That means knowing what subjects and concepts you can commit to memory with a gifted efficiency!! Are you missing a "/s" here? There are lots of things I enjoy doing that I absolutely suck at. Doesn't make them less enjoyable.
- anonymouse008 4y ago
  I’m gzipping the point, but you’re pointing out the exact benefit of ‘the good’ neuroscience. “Suck at” does not mean what you think it means… your brain could be engaged at an optimal level, finding a rejuvenating cycle of effort and rest. That’s the stuff you should chase
lucumo 4y ago
> This tech could create true equality like nothing we've ever seen. No matter where you are on earth, even with the poorest of educational systems, we could know what you naturally 'master' with this tech. That means knowing what subjects and concepts you can commit to memory with a gifted efficiency!! Imagine the sorting hat coming to you and picking you out to join the guild of X or Y! > > But instead we want to talk about "productivity" and "throughput" - as if everyone should be treated as an input / output device for yet another interface. Did you really intend to write that as "but instead"? It confuses me greatly, because I feel that your first example is about as bad as TFH.
- anonymouse008 4y ago
  Yeah - my team and I fought for the good in this tech. I still have hope the opportunity will come around to realize that vision - but you’re right, without a true steward, this gets inhumane quick.
eldritch_4ier 4y ago
Do we want true equality like that? I certainly don't. I will be the first to admit I derive a lot of meaning in life from being capable in my domain the being depended on by others to succeed in that domain (where many others can't). I'd argue that a lot of human drive is rooted in exactly this: being depended on by others and the feeling of belonging and purpose that gives. Flattening the world until we're all equal just means there's no role any of us can uniquely fit, and really no difference between each other at all.

KRAKRISMOTT 4y ago

Current dry electrode technology is nowhere close to being useful for high fidelity applications. You will need a breakthrough in ML/signal processing that can solve the cocktail party problem for a very large n. (Given the current advances in ML, I won't be surprised if we start seeing improvements in this area) To quote professor Mike Cohen, all of neuroscience (the EEG BCI part at least) is source separation. https://youtube.com/@mikexcohen1/videos https://youtube.com/@mikexcohen1/videos

anonymouse008 4y ago
The author of the “great text” of EEG - where we started, too. Yeah; I was surprised with our results, but if you follow his instruction, there’s a lot one can glean.

andrei_says_ 4y ago

Funny thing - in business (as I’m war) the ones with least compassion win. So these same people end up with the money and decide how to spend it. It’s up to us the techies and scientists (with no money) to say no.

Quarrelsome 4y ago
> Funny thing - in business (as I’m war) the ones with least compassion win. I don't remember that happening in 1945. I think being compassionate has some significant propaganda advantages that you are failing to value. To return from war to business I would suggest that working for a company that is compassionate might make hiring good candidates much easier in contrast to a company that isn't. Combined with assumed turnover and associated loss of productivity the compassion could translate into a competitive advantage.

YeBanKo 4y ago

> That means knowing what subjects and concepts you can commit to memory with a gifted efficiency!! Imagine the sorting hat coming to you and picking you out to join the guild of X or Y! You are describing Isaac Asimov’s novel “Profession”.

bluefirebrand 4y ago
I was thinking this sounded a bit like Gattaca myself (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gattaca https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gattaca) Except measuring brainwaves instead of genetics.
poszlem 4y ago
We absolutely go in the direction of the SF dystopias. Another great example is https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Limes_inferior https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Limes_inferior from 1982.
- int_19h 4y ago
  "Profession" is not quite a dystopia, though, considering the ending.
- LargoLasskhyfv 4y ago
  That seems to be a very interesting author. Sadly no english translations of his works seem to exist? Kurva!

Quarrelsome 4y ago

> Imagine the sorting hat coming to you and picking you out to join the guild of X or Y! Is it really reliable to such an extent? It sounds a bit "IQ 2.0" to me and outside of predicting university admission likelihood I feel like IQ isn't necessarily a strong indicator of much.

anonymouse008 4y ago
I was continuously shocked at how well we could figure out mastery vs guessing by combining adaptive testing with a read of cognitive engagement.

HeyLaughingBoy 4y ago

> That means knowing what subjects and concepts you can commit to memory with a gifted efficiency!! Are you missing a "/s" here? There are lots of things I enjoy doing that I absolutely suck at. Doesn't make them less enjoyable.

anonymouse008 4y ago
I’m gzipping the point, but you’re pointing out the exact benefit of ‘the good’ neuroscience. “Suck at” does not mean what you think it means… your brain could be engaged at an optimal level, finding a rejuvenating cycle of effort and rest. That’s the stuff you should chase

lucumo 4y ago

> This tech could create true equality like nothing we've ever seen. No matter where you are on earth, even with the poorest of educational systems, we could know what you naturally 'master' with this tech. That means knowing what subjects and concepts you can commit to memory with a gifted efficiency!! Imagine the sorting hat coming to you and picking you out to join the guild of X or Y! > > But instead we want to talk about "productivity" and "throughput" - as if everyone should be treated as an input / output device for yet another interface. Did you really intend to write that as "but instead"? It confuses me greatly, because I feel that your first example is about as bad as TFH.

anonymouse008 4y ago
Yeah - my team and I fought for the good in this tech. I still have hope the opportunity will come around to realize that vision - but you’re right, without a true steward, this gets inhumane quick.

eldritch_4ier 4y ago

Do we want true equality like that? I certainly don't. I will be the first to admit I derive a lot of meaning in life from being capable in my domain the being depended on by others to succeed in that domain (where many others can't). I'd argue that a lot of human drive is rooted in exactly this: being depended on by others and the feeling of belonging and purpose that gives. Flattening the world until we're all equal just means there's no role any of us can uniquely fit, and really no difference between each other at all.