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Make no mistake, tipping continues in America because most Americans like the system. If you don't like to tip, there are plenty of restaurants where tipping is

Make no mistake, tipping continues in America because most Americans like the system. If you don't like to tip, there are plenty of restaurants where tipping isn't expected; specifically those where you carry the food yourself from the counter to your table. If enough people hated tipping, restaurants that don't have tipping would eventually out-compete those that do. They may yet do so, but presently most of the public seems okay with tipping. Anecdotally, the culture gap between America and Europe when it comes to obligatory tipping is wider than the issue of tipping. Americans seem to generally value superficial pleasantness more than Europeans do. If a waitress in America is having a bad day, people still expect her to put on a pleasant face for the customers, while in Europe people seem to think it normal that a waitress having a bad day would treat other people in a natural fashion, clip and surly. For my part, I prefer the American culture and try my best to reciprocate. If I'm having a bad day, I try to remain superficially pleasant when interacting with waitresses, or anybody else. My bad day shouldn't become somebody else's bad day. Tipping is not necessary for that sort of culture, but I do think it helps to reward it, and washes out those waitresses that can't manage it.

notjonheyman 4y ago
There are restaurant employees that expect a tip because they prepared your food then packaged it up. This is an insane concept to me. In that case these same employees should tip the grocery store clerk that rang up and bagged their groceries, or to their amazon delivery driver, or to the dental assistant that cleaned their teeth. It's absurd to me that the burder of closing the pay gap is on the customer. I'm not opposed to tipping for service but lets taper those expecations a bit. If you already get paid for doing the job, don't expect the customer to foot the rest because the owner doesn't want to participate in profit sharing (the business does good, so do you, hence bigger effort in making sure the business succeeds)
- LarryMullins 4y ago
  > There are restaurant employees that expect a tip because they prepared your food then packaged it up. 'Expect', one word with two very different meanings. 1. To predict or believe that something will happen 3. To consider reasonably due. Synonyms: hope, want, wish They 'expect' a tip in the sense that they want one, but they don't 'expect' tips in the anticipatory sense, because tipping glorified cashiers just isn't part of the American tipping culture. Baristas and the like put tip jars on the counter but I'd guess that only 1 in 10 people ever put anything in those jars. I never do.
galleywest200 4y ago
The problem is the incredibly low wages employers are allowed to pay at tipped establishments. Federally that wage is $2.13 per hour. https://www.dol.gov/agencies/whd/state/minimum-wage/tipped https://www.dol.gov/agencies/whd/state/minimum-wage/tipped
- hervature 4y ago
  That's only if the employee has earned more than $5.12 in tips. For what it's worth, I know many illegal aliens making $+20/hour in tips. Minimum wage here is not a problem.
  - lazyasciiart 4y ago
    For what it's worth, I don't know anyone who has had the employer make up that $5.12 when they didn't get it in tips, and kept the job.
  - LarryMullins 4y ago
    It becomes an issue for waitresses who consistently cannot get tips; the law says their employer has to make up the difference, but in practice such people don't last long in the business. If a waitress is consistently unable to get enough tips to clear minimum wage, there's probably a good reason for it and they're just not cut out for the job. Consider that single 20% tip on a $40 order once an hour is enough to clear the federal minimum wage. It doesn't take much, if you can't make that much in tips then either the restaurant is dead or you're consistently fucking up orders.
    - hervature 4y ago
      You're basically describing the system as it is intended to work. If a business cannot survive without paying someone minimum wage, we've decided as a society that it is not worthy of existence. On the other end, if the person sucks at the job and is costing the business money, I don't know why there is an expectation the person keeps the job. I certainly don't receive that benefit.
nickthegreek 4y ago
Those places where I have to carry my food also ask for tips when I checkout.
- theonething 4y ago
  Correct and I really hate it.
ghaff 4y ago
With respect to Europe, in the UK it's pretty common to see a "voluntary" 10% added to the bill for table service these days. The expectation of tipping for more and more things and the ratcheting up of default amounts in digital payment systems are somewhat annoying. But knowing that you'll be paying 20-25% more or so in a lot of situations between tipping and sales tax isn't really that much more of a mental burden. Honestly, I'm more bothered when restaurants also tack on various fees for "living wage" or health insurance or whatever.
- hgomersall 4y ago
  I'm actually ok with that if it's clear and up front - as in, written on the menu, which in my experience it usually is. It's not like you have to guess the additional expected fee at the end.
  - ghaff 4y ago
    Well, yes, but how many people going into a sit-down restaurant in the US don't know that they're on the hook for about a 25% add-on when they get the bill? Maybe if it's the first time visiting but certainly not in general.
distortionfield 4y ago
> If you don't like to tip, there are plenty of restaurants where tipping isn't expected; specifically those where you carry the food yourself from the counter to your table. Idk where your at but where I'm living in America, these kinds of places still very much encourage a tip and will still give you some dirty glances if you skip the tipping page at checkout. On principle, I won't tip these places, but there's very much still a social expectation.
jaredandrews 4y ago
> If enough people hated tipping, restaurants that don't have tipping would eventually out-compete those that do. What makes you say this? As another comment points out, minimum wage is lower for restaurant workers in most (all?) states. How would a restaurant without tips outcompete in this system?
- LarryMullins 4y ago
  Restaurant wages are lower for waitresses, not for cooks, cashiers, etc. Fast food/etc restaurant workers get the normal minimum wage at the least. Such restaurants can out-compete restaurants with waitresses by simply offering the sort of self-service that most people prefer, if in fact most people prefer that. It's not as though these restaurants are forced to pay their waitresses more; they don't have waitresses at all. That's one less expense they have to worry about.
astura 4y ago
>If you don't like to tip, there are plenty of restaurants where tipping isn't expected; specifically those where you carry the food yourself from the counter to your table These places still ask for a tip. Even to-go only places practically demand tips. I was recently told by a friend that it was just as socially expected to tip for counter service as it is to tip at a sit down restaurant.
- autoexec 4y ago
  Your friend is crazy, or rather it seems they fell victim to the scam. Businesses want you to tip for counter service because you're helping to pay for their labor expenses and they get to pocket the difference. The person behind the counter hopes that you'll tip because they were told when they were hired that tipping would help make up for their low wages. They want to push the perception that society thinks you should tip for counter service, but it's not real (at least not yet). I don't tip for carry out or for retail transactions. Tips are reserved for people who perform a service (waiting on my table, cutting my hair, etc) and not for every employee I interact with who handles food. There was an exception made at the height of the pandemic for restaurants that had few if any indoor diners. We tipped them for carry out because it's money they would have been getting if it were safe to eat inside like we wanted to. Now that most people are back to their old habits (safe or not) I think it's fine to stop tipping for carry out orders.
  - astura 4y ago
    I don't agree with my friend, but she was incredibly outraged that I choose a tip of zero at a donut shop, this is how this came up. If you're being intellectually honest there's no logical justification for why a server "deserves" a tip and counter staff don't.* Half the time the server isn't even the one physically bringing you your food/drink - that's often done by a runner or a bus boy. Because the entire tipping culture is based upon shame if a non-insignificant amount of people feel that they are expected to tip whenever asked for a tip, it ends up being the the same as if there was an actual social obligation to tip. Then there can become one. *There actually is a social obligation to tip counter staff - only if you're ordering an alcoholic drink though.
gambiting 4y ago
As someone who visited America on a business trip - my biggest shock was when we went to a restaurant, and the server we had was downright rude(and it wasn't even just my observation, our American hosts also agreed with this). So at the end of the meal, I said - well the server was rude, that means we don't tip, right? To which our American hosts went "no no, that would make you look like a dick - just tip less, like 10%, that will show them". I still think about this interaction to this day. I don't think the system "washes out" anyone - because(based on my single and anecdotal experience) people will tip no matter what, because otherwise they might look bad.
- LarryMullins 4y ago
  I think the reaction from your American hosts was either unusual, or they privately disagreed with your assessment of the server's rudeness. Maybe that is a restaurant they wanted to return to later and didn't want to burn bridges. I don't hesitate to refuse a tip if the server is truly rude, but I'll also not return to that restaurant for a long time. This has only happened a handful of times in my life. If the service is neutral then I'll leave a neutral tip, usually 15% unless the total is low and rounds up to a nice whole number.
WillDaSilva 4y ago
> If you don't like to tip, there are plenty of restaurants where tipping isn't expected; specifically those where you carry the food yourself from the counter to your table. Generally such restaurants serve significantly different kinds of food, and are typically lower quality. You can't expect these kinds of restaurants (typically fast food, food trucks, buffet food, etc.) to out-compete restaurants that they are hardly even competing with in the first place (e.g. fancier sit-down restaurants).
- LarryMullins 4y ago
  Plenty of people simply choose not to eat at those sort of restaurants. If this is an issue you feel strongly about, it is within your power to choose not to eat at restaurants with waitresses. Such restaurants are a luxury you choose to indulge in.
josephcsible 4y ago
> there are plenty of restaurants where tipping isn't expected; specifically those where you carry the food yourself from the counter to your table I assume you haven't eaten at any of those kind of restaurants since 2019.

notjonheyman 4y ago

There are restaurant employees that expect a tip because they prepared your food then packaged it up. This is an insane concept to me. In that case these same employees should tip the grocery store clerk that rang up and bagged their groceries, or to their amazon delivery driver, or to the dental assistant that cleaned their teeth. It's absurd to me that the burder of closing the pay gap is on the customer. I'm not opposed to tipping for service but lets taper those expecations a bit. If you already get paid for doing the job, don't expect the customer to foot the rest because the owner doesn't want to participate in profit sharing (the business does good, so do you, hence bigger effort in making sure the business succeeds)

LarryMullins 4y ago
> There are restaurant employees that expect a tip because they prepared your food then packaged it up. 'Expect', one word with two very different meanings. 1. To predict or believe that something will happen 3. To consider reasonably due. Synonyms: hope, want, wish They 'expect' a tip in the sense that they want one, but they don't 'expect' tips in the anticipatory sense, because tipping glorified cashiers just isn't part of the American tipping culture. Baristas and the like put tip jars on the counter but I'd guess that only 1 in 10 people ever put anything in those jars. I never do.

galleywest200 4y ago

The problem is the incredibly low wages employers are allowed to pay at tipped establishments. Federally that wage is $2.13 per hour. https://www.dol.gov/agencies/whd/state/minimum-wage/tipped https://www.dol.gov/agencies/whd/state/minimum-wage/tipped

hervature 4y ago
That's only if the employee has earned more than $5.12 in tips. For what it's worth, I know many illegal aliens making $+20/hour in tips. Minimum wage here is not a problem.
- lazyasciiart 4y ago
  For what it's worth, I don't know anyone who has had the employer make up that $5.12 when they didn't get it in tips, and kept the job.
- LarryMullins 4y ago
  It becomes an issue for waitresses who consistently cannot get tips; the law says their employer has to make up the difference, but in practice such people don't last long in the business. If a waitress is consistently unable to get enough tips to clear minimum wage, there's probably a good reason for it and they're just not cut out for the job. Consider that single 20% tip on a $40 order once an hour is enough to clear the federal minimum wage. It doesn't take much, if you can't make that much in tips then either the restaurant is dead or you're consistently fucking up orders.
  - hervature 4y ago
    You're basically describing the system as it is intended to work. If a business cannot survive without paying someone minimum wage, we've decided as a society that it is not worthy of existence. On the other end, if the person sucks at the job and is costing the business money, I don't know why there is an expectation the person keeps the job. I certainly don't receive that benefit.

nickthegreek 4y ago

Those places where I have to carry my food also ask for tips when I checkout.

theonething 4y ago
Correct and I really hate it.

ghaff 4y ago

With respect to Europe, in the UK it's pretty common to see a "voluntary" 10% added to the bill for table service these days. The expectation of tipping for more and more things and the ratcheting up of default amounts in digital payment systems are somewhat annoying. But knowing that you'll be paying 20-25% more or so in a lot of situations between tipping and sales tax isn't really that much more of a mental burden. Honestly, I'm more bothered when restaurants also tack on various fees for "living wage" or health insurance or whatever.

hgomersall 4y ago
I'm actually ok with that if it's clear and up front - as in, written on the menu, which in my experience it usually is. It's not like you have to guess the additional expected fee at the end.
- ghaff 4y ago
  Well, yes, but how many people going into a sit-down restaurant in the US don't know that they're on the hook for about a 25% add-on when they get the bill? Maybe if it's the first time visiting but certainly not in general.

distortionfield 4y ago

> If you don't like to tip, there are plenty of restaurants where tipping isn't expected; specifically those where you carry the food yourself from the counter to your table. Idk where your at but where I'm living in America, these kinds of places still very much encourage a tip and will still give you some dirty glances if you skip the tipping page at checkout. On principle, I won't tip these places, but there's very much still a social expectation.

jaredandrews 4y ago

> If enough people hated tipping, restaurants that don't have tipping would eventually out-compete those that do. What makes you say this? As another comment points out, minimum wage is lower for restaurant workers in most (all?) states. How would a restaurant without tips outcompete in this system?

LarryMullins 4y ago
Restaurant wages are lower for waitresses, not for cooks, cashiers, etc. Fast food/etc restaurant workers get the normal minimum wage at the least. Such restaurants can out-compete restaurants with waitresses by simply offering the sort of self-service that most people prefer, if in fact most people prefer that. It's not as though these restaurants are forced to pay their waitresses more; they don't have waitresses at all. That's one less expense they have to worry about.

astura 4y ago

>If you don't like to tip, there are plenty of restaurants where tipping isn't expected; specifically those where you carry the food yourself from the counter to your table These places still ask for a tip. Even to-go only places practically demand tips. I was recently told by a friend that it was just as socially expected to tip for counter service as it is to tip at a sit down restaurant.

autoexec 4y ago
Your friend is crazy, or rather it seems they fell victim to the scam. Businesses want you to tip for counter service because you're helping to pay for their labor expenses and they get to pocket the difference. The person behind the counter hopes that you'll tip because they were told when they were hired that tipping would help make up for their low wages. They want to push the perception that society thinks you should tip for counter service, but it's not real (at least not yet). I don't tip for carry out or for retail transactions. Tips are reserved for people who perform a service (waiting on my table, cutting my hair, etc) and not for every employee I interact with who handles food. There was an exception made at the height of the pandemic for restaurants that had few if any indoor diners. We tipped them for carry out because it's money they would have been getting if it were safe to eat inside like we wanted to. Now that most people are back to their old habits (safe or not) I think it's fine to stop tipping for carry out orders.
- astura 4y ago
  I don't agree with my friend, but she was incredibly outraged that I choose a tip of zero at a donut shop, this is how this came up. If you're being intellectually honest there's no logical justification for why a server "deserves" a tip and counter staff don't.* Half the time the server isn't even the one physically bringing you your food/drink - that's often done by a runner or a bus boy. Because the entire tipping culture is based upon shame if a non-insignificant amount of people feel that they are expected to tip whenever asked for a tip, it ends up being the the same as if there was an actual social obligation to tip. Then there can become one. *There actually is a social obligation to tip counter staff - only if you're ordering an alcoholic drink though.

gambiting 4y ago

As someone who visited America on a business trip - my biggest shock was when we went to a restaurant, and the server we had was downright rude(and it wasn't even just my observation, our American hosts also agreed with this). So at the end of the meal, I said - well the server was rude, that means we don't tip, right? To which our American hosts went "no no, that would make you look like a dick - just tip less, like 10%, that will show them". I still think about this interaction to this day. I don't think the system "washes out" anyone - because(based on my single and anecdotal experience) people will tip no matter what, because otherwise they might look bad.

LarryMullins 4y ago
I think the reaction from your American hosts was either unusual, or they privately disagreed with your assessment of the server's rudeness. Maybe that is a restaurant they wanted to return to later and didn't want to burn bridges. I don't hesitate to refuse a tip if the server is truly rude, but I'll also not return to that restaurant for a long time. This has only happened a handful of times in my life. If the service is neutral then I'll leave a neutral tip, usually 15% unless the total is low and rounds up to a nice whole number.

WillDaSilva 4y ago

> If you don't like to tip, there are plenty of restaurants where tipping isn't expected; specifically those where you carry the food yourself from the counter to your table. Generally such restaurants serve significantly different kinds of food, and are typically lower quality. You can't expect these kinds of restaurants (typically fast food, food trucks, buffet food, etc.) to out-compete restaurants that they are hardly even competing with in the first place (e.g. fancier sit-down restaurants).

LarryMullins 4y ago
Plenty of people simply choose not to eat at those sort of restaurants. If this is an issue you feel strongly about, it is within your power to choose not to eat at restaurants with waitresses. Such restaurants are a luxury you choose to indulge in.

josephcsible 4y ago

> there are plenty of restaurants where tipping isn't expected; specifically those where you carry the food yourself from the counter to your table I assume you haven't eaten at any of those kind of restaurants since 2019.