5 ms·

> We already have proven prophylactic measures to prevent this disease. Yes, there's also abstinence. However people aren't going to stop having sex, and they

> We already have proven prophylactic measures to prevent this disease. Yes, there's also abstinence. However people aren't going to stop having sex, and they aren't going to use condoms frequently enough to control the disease.

jelliclesfarm 4y ago
That’s like saying ppl aren’t going to stop cutting themselves just because they bleed when they do.
mrguyorama 4y ago
Especially when most people currently view gonorrhea as "not a big deal, go to the doctor and get a shot". People will be caught off guard by this development.
- giantg2 4y ago
  That sounds like the same way people today use testing. They have no idea of the limitations and how long some of the detection lag times can be.
rayiner 4y ago
That’s a remarkable assertion, given that there’s plenty of countries where strong taboos on having multiple sexual partners has effectively controlled diseases such as AIDs. For example, AIDS prevalence in Egypt and Pakistan (which have relatively well developed healthcare systems with accurate statistics, and are also the target of extensive western healthcare aid and associated scrutiny) is just 0.1%. In the United States it’s 0.36% and in many countries it’s well over 1%. Many poor countries have largely been spared the ravages of the AIDS epidemic because it is in fact possible for societies to reduce risky sexual behavior if they choose to do so.
- JamesBarney 4y ago
  While it's possible in theory to undo the sexual revolution in the US, it's also would be practically impossible.
  - rayiner 4y ago
    That’s probably true. I’m just pointing out that “we can’t” is a different argument than “we like it this way and are willing to put up with the consequences.”
  - crystaln 4y ago
    It would also be a huge regression for humanity IMO.
  - mensetmanusman 4y ago
    It’s happening slowly already due to which world views are repopulating and which are doing the opposite…
- tptacek 4y ago
  The countries with the highest prevalence of AIDS overwhelmingly do not share the taboos (or lack thereof) of the United States.
  - rayiner 4y ago
    They don’t share the culture of the US, but they lack the stringent taboos on risky sexual activity that exist in Asia and the Middle East. The unmarried birth rate in China, India, North Africa, and South Asia is just around 1% https://archive-yaleglobal.yale.edu/content/out-wedlock-births-rise-worldwide https://archive-yaleglobal.yale.edu/content/out-wedlock-birt.... In countries like Kenya which have high AIDS prevalence rates, unmarried births are around 30%. Similarly, the only Asian country with high levels of unmarried births, the Philippines (what is it with former Spanish colonies) is contending with an AIDS epidemic: https://pulitzercenter.org/stories/philippines-hiv-cases-could-reach-133000-2022 https://pulitzercenter.org/stories/philippines-hiv-cases-cou...
    - tptacek 4y ago
      You see how this can be knocked down as a just-so story, right? You started out with a statistical narrative that, to say the least, doesn't hold up.
      - rayiner 4y ago
        “Countries that stigmatize and punish sex outside of marriage inexplicably have low levels of sexually transmitted diseases. Social scientists at a loss for any explanation.” You’ll struggle to find air tight explanations for any sociological phenomenon. But as far as such correlations go this is a pretty compelling one. Certainly if I’m in Asia I wouldn’t be inclined to mess with a system that seems to be working.
        tptacek 4y ago
        You tried to make that argument, 2 comments ago, with a trivial statistical argument that fell apart the moment anyone breathed on it. Given the motte has fallen, it seems futile to make a stand at the bailey, right? I don't even know how much we disagree about this fuzzy, subjective values discussion here; I'm just interested in the argument I responded to originally.
pcthrowaway 4y ago
Isn't Gonorrhea also transmissible from oral sex? (almost) no one is using condoms for oral sex. The group of people who do are a rounding error.
- giantg2 4y ago
  "a rounding error." I wonder what's smaller than a rounding, for what we would call the number of users of dental dams?
yucky 4y ago
> Yes, there's also abstinence. I assume they meant monogamy. Or for those who can't go with just one sexual partner, condoms are a thing.
giantg2 4y ago
"and they aren't going to use condoms frequently enough to control the disease." And you think those same people would get a vaccine and boosters, assuming an effective one could be made?

jelliclesfarm 4y ago

That’s like saying ppl aren’t going to stop cutting themselves just because they bleed when they do.

mrguyorama 4y ago

Especially when most people currently view gonorrhea as "not a big deal, go to the doctor and get a shot". People will be caught off guard by this development.

giantg2 4y ago
That sounds like the same way people today use testing. They have no idea of the limitations and how long some of the detection lag times can be.

rayiner 4y ago

That’s a remarkable assertion, given that there’s plenty of countries where strong taboos on having multiple sexual partners has effectively controlled diseases such as AIDs. For example, AIDS prevalence in Egypt and Pakistan (which have relatively well developed healthcare systems with accurate statistics, and are also the target of extensive western healthcare aid and associated scrutiny) is just 0.1%. In the United States it’s 0.36% and in many countries it’s well over 1%. Many poor countries have largely been spared the ravages of the AIDS epidemic because it is in fact possible for societies to reduce risky sexual behavior if they choose to do so.

JamesBarney 4y ago
While it's possible in theory to undo the sexual revolution in the US, it's also would be practically impossible.
- rayiner 4y ago
  That’s probably true. I’m just pointing out that “we can’t” is a different argument than “we like it this way and are willing to put up with the consequences.”
- crystaln 4y ago
  It would also be a huge regression for humanity IMO.
- mensetmanusman 4y ago
  It’s happening slowly already due to which world views are repopulating and which are doing the opposite…
tptacek 4y ago
The countries with the highest prevalence of AIDS overwhelmingly do not share the taboos (or lack thereof) of the United States.
- rayiner 4y ago
  They don’t share the culture of the US, but they lack the stringent taboos on risky sexual activity that exist in Asia and the Middle East. The unmarried birth rate in China, India, North Africa, and South Asia is just around 1% https://archive-yaleglobal.yale.edu/content/out-wedlock-births-rise-worldwide https://archive-yaleglobal.yale.edu/content/out-wedlock-birt.... In countries like Kenya which have high AIDS prevalence rates, unmarried births are around 30%. Similarly, the only Asian country with high levels of unmarried births, the Philippines (what is it with former Spanish colonies) is contending with an AIDS epidemic: https://pulitzercenter.org/stories/philippines-hiv-cases-could-reach-133000-2022 https://pulitzercenter.org/stories/philippines-hiv-cases-cou...
  - tptacek 4y ago
    You see how this can be knocked down as a just-so story, right? You started out with a statistical narrative that, to say the least, doesn't hold up.
    - rayiner 4y ago
      “Countries that stigmatize and punish sex outside of marriage inexplicably have low levels of sexually transmitted diseases. Social scientists at a loss for any explanation.” You’ll struggle to find air tight explanations for any sociological phenomenon. But as far as such correlations go this is a pretty compelling one. Certainly if I’m in Asia I wouldn’t be inclined to mess with a system that seems to be working.
      - tptacek 4y ago
        You tried to make that argument, 2 comments ago, with a trivial statistical argument that fell apart the moment anyone breathed on it. Given the motte has fallen, it seems futile to make a stand at the bailey, right? I don't even know how much we disagree about this fuzzy, subjective values discussion here; I'm just interested in the argument I responded to originally.

pcthrowaway 4y ago

Isn't Gonorrhea also transmissible from oral sex? (almost) no one is using condoms for oral sex. The group of people who do are a rounding error.

giantg2 4y ago
"a rounding error." I wonder what's smaller than a rounding, for what we would call the number of users of dental dams?

yucky 4y ago

> Yes, there's also abstinence. I assume they meant monogamy. Or for those who can't go with just one sexual partner, condoms are a thing.

giantg2 4y ago

"and they aren't going to use condoms frequently enough to control the disease." And you think those same people would get a vaccine and boosters, assuming an effective one could be made?