3 ms·

They use C02. Here's what gets me - they also use CO2 for euthanizing lab mice and I know people who work in labs where mice are euthanized in this manner and t

They use C02. Here's what gets me - they also use CO2 for euthanizing lab mice and I know people who work in labs where mice are euthanized in this manner and they say the mice never act stressed. Does CO2 affect pigs and mice differently? Or is this a one-off being leaked to make it appear that all pigs are stressed when euthanized with CO2? I really don't know and I don't know anyone who works in a slaughterhouse.

cm2187 4y ago
The problem is that the pigs look pretty stressed before even entering the chamber, so I am not sure how one can tell that this is the effect of the gas or just that they have been pushed into a black room and have no idea what is happening to them.
Ancapistani 4y ago
It looks like it's somewhat unclear. Here's the first reference I've found, which appears to be reasonably trustworthy at first glance. Note that it's very much from the perspective of industrial farming. https://www.grandin.com/humane/meatfocus7-92.html https://www.grandin.com/humane/meatfocus7-92.html Basically, there are studies showing that pigs die a suffocating death with CO2, and there are studies showing that they don't even know it's happening. Both could be true, if there are genetic differences that impact the suffocation response. According to the article, those same differences seem to be present in humans as well, when exposed to high (but non-fatal) concentrations of CO2.
LarryMullins 4y ago
This page suggests that rodents exposed to gradually increasing CO2 concentrations die painlessly because: > "[...] analgesia is induced at approximately 7.5%, and anesthesia is induced at 30%, with death due to nervous system depression occurring with prolonged concentrations of 30% and higher." https://rsawa.research.ucla.edu/arc/euthanasia-rodent/ https://rsawa.research.ucla.edu/arc/euthanasia-rodent/ Seems dubious to me, since even very low concentrations of CO2 can make humans feel very uncomfortable (the "stuffy room" feeling, where getting fresh air starts to be the only thing you can focus on.) It's possible that rodents, being smaller, go through these stages of suffocation faster so their suffering is less apparent to people. Or maybe lab workers are telling "white lies" because they think the ends justify the means but they're not sure the rest of the public will see it that way.
- taylodl 4y ago
  One of the lab workers I know who works the most with mice is more of the squeamish type and is a vegetarian, so I think she'd be more upset if she saw the mice were in distress - and she's explained the entire process to me. It's also interesting they use the CO2 only on the adult mice, for the babies they simply cut their heads off with shears. She explained the babies are the ones that suffer when exposed to CO2, whereas the adults don't. The thing is it's all a matter of trust. Do we trust the meat industry when they tell us the animals aren't suffering? We've been lied to so many times by corporations that we tend to no longer trust them without some evidence. When they pay off legislatures to pass laws making it illegal to collect any evidence it makes it appear they're lying.

cm2187 4y ago

The problem is that the pigs look pretty stressed before even entering the chamber, so I am not sure how one can tell that this is the effect of the gas or just that they have been pushed into a black room and have no idea what is happening to them.

Ancapistani 4y ago

It looks like it's somewhat unclear. Here's the first reference I've found, which appears to be reasonably trustworthy at first glance. Note that it's very much from the perspective of industrial farming. https://www.grandin.com/humane/meatfocus7-92.html https://www.grandin.com/humane/meatfocus7-92.html Basically, there are studies showing that pigs die a suffocating death with CO2, and there are studies showing that they don't even know it's happening. Both could be true, if there are genetic differences that impact the suffocation response. According to the article, those same differences seem to be present in humans as well, when exposed to high (but non-fatal) concentrations of CO2.

LarryMullins 4y ago

This page suggests that rodents exposed to gradually increasing CO2 concentrations die painlessly because: > "[...] analgesia is induced at approximately 7.5%, and anesthesia is induced at 30%, with death due to nervous system depression occurring with prolonged concentrations of 30% and higher." https://rsawa.research.ucla.edu/arc/euthanasia-rodent/ https://rsawa.research.ucla.edu/arc/euthanasia-rodent/ Seems dubious to me, since even very low concentrations of CO2 can make humans feel very uncomfortable (the "stuffy room" feeling, where getting fresh air starts to be the only thing you can focus on.) It's possible that rodents, being smaller, go through these stages of suffocation faster so their suffering is less apparent to people. Or maybe lab workers are telling "white lies" because they think the ends justify the means but they're not sure the rest of the public will see it that way.

taylodl 4y ago
One of the lab workers I know who works the most with mice is more of the squeamish type and is a vegetarian, so I think she'd be more upset if she saw the mice were in distress - and she's explained the entire process to me. It's also interesting they use the CO2 only on the adult mice, for the babies they simply cut their heads off with shears. She explained the babies are the ones that suffer when exposed to CO2, whereas the adults don't. The thing is it's all a matter of trust. Do we trust the meat industry when they tell us the animals aren't suffering? We've been lied to so many times by corporations that we tend to no longer trust them without some evidence. When they pay off legislatures to pass laws making it illegal to collect any evidence it makes it appear they're lying.