5 ms·

I have an old friend who is blind. The official Twitter client is a LOT less accessible than the one she was using. This change impacts her ability to use Twitt

by teach 4y ago

I have an old friend who is blind. The official Twitter client is a LOT less accessible than the one she was using. This change impacts her ability to use Twitter considerably. And before you start with the "well, she's probably better off" -- she lives in a small rural town. Twitter and Facebook and the like are one of her few connections to a larger world.

based_karen 4y ago
[flagged]
wstuartcl 4y ago
The fact that Elon has disbanded the accessibility team at twitter probably already leads them into hot water related to this (It is not uncommon for orgs like twitter to be bound by multiple long term settlements related to accessibility suits that each have obligations of certain deliverables in this area. If your friend truly does have issues navigating the site perhaps she may want to look to a legal remedy -- from all appearances that is really the only knob that seems to have any impact on Musk.
- NavinF 4y ago
  Has a social media site ever been forced to accommodate blind people? Serious question.
  - JustSomeNobody 4y ago
    When is a good time to start holding them accountable?
    - wstuartcl 4y ago
      It would be mind blowing to me and completely unexpected if twitter was not already under many active settlements related to accessibility lawsuits each with their own ongoing obligations. There are very few large entities that have not been impacted by ADA lawsuits at this point -- even ones that had accessibility as a core value before the lawsuits.
  - damon_c 4y ago
    Every website accessible to the public has some responsibility to accommodate the disabled. https://www.ada.gov/resources/web-guidance/ https://www.ada.gov/resources/web-guidance/ There are a lot of opportunistic/good hearted compassionate lawyers making a good business of shaking down smaller website operators for ADA compliance.
    - joshxyz 4y ago
      Damn patent trolls are missing out on this good lord.
  - wstuartcl 4y ago
    I believe just meta has encountered many dozens of ADA related lawsuits for everything from their use of disability information for ad targeting to web accessibility -- both government instantiated and civil cases. I am fairly sure much of their accessibility work was instantiated by these lawsuits and settlements. https://www.facebook.com/help/273947702950567 https://www.facebook.com/help/273947702950567
  - nhtsamera 4y ago
    Not really social media, but Netflix lost (settled) an ADA suit because they weren't providing subtitles consistently: https://dredf.org/legal-advocacy/nad-v-netflix/ https://dredf.org/legal-advocacy/nad-v-netflix/
  - reaperducer 4y ago
    Has a social media site ever been forced to accommodate blind people? Social media? Not to my knowledge. But not having a website that's usable by the blind cost Target $6 million: https://www.cnet.com/tech/services-and-software/target-settles-with-blind-patrons-over-site-accessibility/ https://www.cnet.com/tech/services-and-software/target-settl...
  - prvc 4y ago
    Youtube to this day allows uploaders to disable automatic captions for some reason.
    - monkeywork 4y ago
      Because sometimes the automatic captions brutally butcher the text and can change the presenters meaning.
  - geoelectric 4y ago
    I think a recent court decision in CA determined that unless the website is a front for a brick & mortar real world place, they're not subject to the CA version of those laws (Unruh). How that would play with the ADA rules, I don't know, but this article mentions both. I'm not sure this issue is at all settled nationwide, but my take is bringing that lawsuit in CA won't get you very far. https://www.natlawreview.com/article/california-court-appeal-narrows-reach-ada-and-unruh-civil-rights-act-they-apply-to https://www.natlawreview.com/article/california-court-appeal... Kind of a shame, because it was my first thought too--losing the accessibility team and then removing all the accessible clients definitely won't make Musk many friends among disability advocates.
    - geoelectric 4y ago
      I do wonder, as a late afterthought, though, whether the legal principle behind making your accessibility worse via negligence or deprioritization (the internal team) or lack of due diligence (these apps) could be different than whether the government could require you to include it in the first place.
shadowgovt 4y ago
She's still probably better off, because what happens next to Twitter will continue to be less and less pretty. The sooner people jump off the ship, the better for each of them.
- SamoyedFurFluff 4y ago
  Where will she jump to?
  - r00fus 4y ago
    This discussion thread is rife with options like Ivory, Post, etc.
  - shadowgovt 4y ago
    That is the challenge. Musk's tantrum has made an already-solved problem for a lot of people something they now have to re-solve. I'm generally recommending Mastodon to people (and can recommend a handful of specific nodes), but nothing auto-replaces Twitter. Point is, unfortunately, Twitter's dying and its prognosis is poor. We can imagine it'll get better but the realistic strategy is to bail. (My previous post lacked empathy, and I apologize for that. Some billionaire asshole spent a lot of money to break something that worked for a lot of people. That's not fair to them.)
    - vlachen 4y ago
      I would take those node recommendations. I've dipped my toes in, but don't have the wherewithal right now to really figure out how to find what's worth following.
      - shadowgovt 4y ago
        - mastodon.social is the closest thing Mastodon has to a "main" node. With the pros and cons associated with that. Given the relative youth of the experiment, I'd be a little concerned about whether admins can keep up with the growth, but it's probably the best of the "no opinion" options. - qoto.org: member of United Federation of Instances. Relatively inclusive (and has some interesting extensions running on the base Mastodon service), but not necessarily federated to all the instances mastodon.social is federated to because they don't have a strict "Nazis fuck off" policy. - mastodon.lol: antifa / LGBTQ+ / hacker-friendly node. Strict "Nazis fuck off" policy. - infosec.exchange: InfoSec-focused Mastodon node, but pretty open with a pretty regular policy. I think the strategy I'd probably recommend for a new user is something like "Join at mastodon.social, follow some people, and lurk. If you see many people you like who live at a particular node, migrate to that node." (And honestly, unless a defederation fight breaks out, 90% of nodes are pretty interchangeable with each other; you can follow anyone the node federates to so it doesn't matter over-much which node you're on unless you want some specific features or you want admins who have a particular attitude towards your bugbear-topics).
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
kennydude 4y ago
I'm hoping some of the new Mastodon clients come out have great accessibility features. At the very least, one of the core features of the platform is it (at least on web) highly encourages captions on images for accessibility :) (I know there is the issue of where people she was following on Twitter may not move over etc, sadly)
JumpCrisscross 4y ago
> official Twitter client is a LOT less accessible than the one she was using She should submit an ADA complaint [1]. [1] https://www.ada.gov/file-a-complaint/ https://www.ada.gov/file-a-complaint/
dyno12345 4y ago
Was it this person? > This makes me so sad. Your iPhone app allowed me as a blind person to use Twitter so much better than the app that they themselves produce. Sorry for the hostility you are receiving from them, but know that you are appreciated for the hard work you’ve done. > Maybe the best thing anyone's ever told us. Thank you for this, truly. It is everything. Please take care. https://mobile.twitter.com/RustyHilliard77/status/1616174474029862912 https://mobile.twitter.com/RustyHilliard77/status/1616174474...
- teach 4y ago
  No, but I guess my friend isn't the only blind person in the world who uses Twitter. Class action lawsuit?

by teach 4y ago

based_karen 4y ago

[flagged]

wstuartcl 4y ago

The fact that Elon has disbanded the accessibility team at twitter probably already leads them into hot water related to this (It is not uncommon for orgs like twitter to be bound by multiple long term settlements related to accessibility suits that each have obligations of certain deliverables in this area. If your friend truly does have issues navigating the site perhaps she may want to look to a legal remedy -- from all appearances that is really the only knob that seems to have any impact on Musk.

NavinF 4y ago
Has a social media site ever been forced to accommodate blind people? Serious question.
- JustSomeNobody 4y ago
  When is a good time to start holding them accountable?
  - wstuartcl 4y ago
    It would be mind blowing to me and completely unexpected if twitter was not already under many active settlements related to accessibility lawsuits each with their own ongoing obligations. There are very few large entities that have not been impacted by ADA lawsuits at this point -- even ones that had accessibility as a core value before the lawsuits.
- damon_c 4y ago
  Every website accessible to the public has some responsibility to accommodate the disabled. https://www.ada.gov/resources/web-guidance/ https://www.ada.gov/resources/web-guidance/ There are a lot of opportunistic/good hearted compassionate lawyers making a good business of shaking down smaller website operators for ADA compliance.
  - joshxyz 4y ago
    Damn patent trolls are missing out on this good lord.
- wstuartcl 4y ago
  I believe just meta has encountered many dozens of ADA related lawsuits for everything from their use of disability information for ad targeting to web accessibility -- both government instantiated and civil cases. I am fairly sure much of their accessibility work was instantiated by these lawsuits and settlements. https://www.facebook.com/help/273947702950567 https://www.facebook.com/help/273947702950567
- nhtsamera 4y ago
  Not really social media, but Netflix lost (settled) an ADA suit because they weren't providing subtitles consistently: https://dredf.org/legal-advocacy/nad-v-netflix/ https://dredf.org/legal-advocacy/nad-v-netflix/
- reaperducer 4y ago
  Has a social media site ever been forced to accommodate blind people? Social media? Not to my knowledge. But not having a website that's usable by the blind cost Target $6 million: https://www.cnet.com/tech/services-and-software/target-settles-with-blind-patrons-over-site-accessibility/ https://www.cnet.com/tech/services-and-software/target-settl...
- prvc 4y ago
  Youtube to this day allows uploaders to disable automatic captions for some reason.
  - monkeywork 4y ago
    Because sometimes the automatic captions brutally butcher the text and can change the presenters meaning.
- geoelectric 4y ago
  I think a recent court decision in CA determined that unless the website is a front for a brick & mortar real world place, they're not subject to the CA version of those laws (Unruh). How that would play with the ADA rules, I don't know, but this article mentions both. I'm not sure this issue is at all settled nationwide, but my take is bringing that lawsuit in CA won't get you very far. https://www.natlawreview.com/article/california-court-appeal-narrows-reach-ada-and-unruh-civil-rights-act-they-apply-to https://www.natlawreview.com/article/california-court-appeal... Kind of a shame, because it was my first thought too--losing the accessibility team and then removing all the accessible clients definitely won't make Musk many friends among disability advocates.
  - geoelectric 4y ago
    I do wonder, as a late afterthought, though, whether the legal principle behind making your accessibility worse via negligence or deprioritization (the internal team) or lack of due diligence (these apps) could be different than whether the government could require you to include it in the first place.

shadowgovt 4y ago

She's still probably better off, because what happens next to Twitter will continue to be less and less pretty. The sooner people jump off the ship, the better for each of them.

SamoyedFurFluff 4y ago
Where will she jump to?
- r00fus 4y ago
  This discussion thread is rife with options like Ivory, Post, etc.
- shadowgovt 4y ago
  That is the challenge. Musk's tantrum has made an already-solved problem for a lot of people something they now have to re-solve. I'm generally recommending Mastodon to people (and can recommend a handful of specific nodes), but nothing auto-replaces Twitter. Point is, unfortunately, Twitter's dying and its prognosis is poor. We can imagine it'll get better but the realistic strategy is to bail. (My previous post lacked empathy, and I apologize for that. Some billionaire asshole spent a lot of money to break something that worked for a lot of people. That's not fair to them.)
  - vlachen 4y ago
    I would take those node recommendations. I've dipped my toes in, but don't have the wherewithal right now to really figure out how to find what's worth following.
    - shadowgovt 4y ago
      - mastodon.social is the closest thing Mastodon has to a "main" node. With the pros and cons associated with that. Given the relative youth of the experiment, I'd be a little concerned about whether admins can keep up with the growth, but it's probably the best of the "no opinion" options. - qoto.org: member of United Federation of Instances. Relatively inclusive (and has some interesting extensions running on the base Mastodon service), but not necessarily federated to all the instances mastodon.social is federated to because they don't have a strict "Nazis fuck off" policy. - mastodon.lol: antifa / LGBTQ+ / hacker-friendly node. Strict "Nazis fuck off" policy. - infosec.exchange: InfoSec-focused Mastodon node, but pretty open with a pretty regular policy. I think the strategy I'd probably recommend for a new user is something like "Join at mastodon.social, follow some people, and lurk. If you see many people you like who live at a particular node, migrate to that node." (And honestly, unless a defederation fight breaks out, 90% of nodes are pretty interchangeable with each other; you can follow anyone the node federates to so it doesn't matter over-much which node you're on unless you want some specific features or you want admins who have a particular attitude towards your bugbear-topics).

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]

kennydude 4y ago

I'm hoping some of the new Mastodon clients come out have great accessibility features. At the very least, one of the core features of the platform is it (at least on web) highly encourages captions on images for accessibility :) (I know there is the issue of where people she was following on Twitter may not move over etc, sadly)

JumpCrisscross 4y ago

> official Twitter client is a LOT less accessible than the one she was using She should submit an ADA complaint [1]. [1] https://www.ada.gov/file-a-complaint/ https://www.ada.gov/file-a-complaint/

dyno12345 4y ago

Was it this person? > This makes me so sad. Your iPhone app allowed me as a blind person to use Twitter so much better than the app that they themselves produce. Sorry for the hostility you are receiving from them, but know that you are appreciated for the hard work you’ve done. > Maybe the best thing anyone's ever told us. Thank you for this, truly. It is everything. Please take care. https://mobile.twitter.com/RustyHilliard77/status/1616174474029862912 https://mobile.twitter.com/RustyHilliard77/status/1616174474...

teach 4y ago
No, but I guess my friend isn't the only blind person in the world who uses Twitter. Class action lawsuit?