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Let's say this job was not available for $1.46 an hour after tax. Are those potential employees better off or worse off?

ClumsyPilot 4y ago
lets say profits were making their way down the chain - would the economy be better off or worse off?
- oh_sigh 4y ago
  Probably better. See? I answered your question. Not sure why it is so hard to answer mine.
  - guerrilla 4y ago
    because yours is a manipulative false dichotomy as demonstrated by the second question.
    - hackinthebochs 4y ago
      Stated more realistically, what will those people do in the mean time while we all wait for the economic structure of the world to reorient itself towards profit sharing? How long are they expected to wait?
      - guerrilla 4y ago
        The economic structure doesn't need to change for these companies to act as if it had, nor for these people to take these jobs if neither thing happens. All three things can be true at the same time. As I said, it was a false dichotomy. That's key to understanding the situation.
        hackinthebochs 4y ago
        And how do you expect to effect such a change? Is it just a matter of generating sufficient outrage in your mind? Why should these people be forced to wait and suffer while you and your ilk write think pieces about silicon valley? This is the problem with ideas like yours, there is no practical plan on offer to create the reality you are advocating for. Yet, you expect these people who are suffering right now to just sit tight. Its narcissism.
        ClumsyPilot 4y ago
        > there is no practical plan on offer to create the reality you are advocating for...Its narcissism. Let's try this with another Idea: Person A - I am protesting to end slavery / Fix climate change / stop cops killing people for being black or poor Person B - You have no detailed plan how to achieve this, you are a narcissist!
        hackinthebochs 4y ago
        The obvious difference is that (A)'s implementation doesn't also require stopping doing some further X, thereby causing suffering among vulnerable people right now. I'm not sure how you missed that.
    - oh_sigh 4y ago
      How much do you think ML trainers previously getting paid $1.46/hr would get paid if the company distributed 100% of their profits to their employees?
- somedude895 4y ago
  There's a provider in Kenya, who offers these services at a certain rate. OpenAI isn't going go pay them more and instruct them to pass the money on to the workers. They're businesses, not charities. How are so many comments in this thread so far detached from the real world?
arcticbull 4y ago
They would likely be better off in the long term as time spent on this kind of menial labor represents a massive opportunity cost.
- oh_sigh 4y ago
  What do you think the employees would be doing if they didn't take this job?
- hbrn 4y ago
  > They would likely be better off in the long term It's quite a dangerous mindset to think that taking freedom away from other people is a good thing because you know better. In some cases you will be correct. In others, millions will die.
  - arcticbull 4y ago
    > In some cases you will be correct. In others, millions will die. And in the average case nothing happens. There's no reason to think it's a barbell shaped distribution with outcomes weighted towards the extremes. Further, it's not a trap-door decision, and it's not a decision that leads to instant death and despair. If it becomes problematic, it's quite straightforward to reverse course.
    - hbrn 4y ago
      > And in the average case nothing happens On average, casino players lose a little bit of money. But with a gambler mindset, you lose everything. > If it becomes problematic, it's quite straightforward to reverse course. And yet two of the worst famines in the last century were not reversed.
      - arcticbull 4y ago
        > On average, casino players lose a little bit of money. But with a gambler mindset, you lose everything. This isn't a casino. > And yet two of the worst famines in the last century were not reversed. That's actually not really the right way of looking at it. You're measuring the things that did happen without measuring the things that didn't happen. How many were stopped? How many were stopped by the Farm Bill alone? I'm not actually sure which of the famines you're referring to but if you're referring to the Holodomor, it was intentional.
Xelynega 4y ago
Let's say we restructure global labour relations such that people arent getting paid a fraction of their worth because of where they were born or choose to live. You know, since we're dealing in hypotheticals.

ClumsyPilot 4y ago

lets say profits were making their way down the chain - would the economy be better off or worse off?

oh_sigh 4y ago
Probably better. See? I answered your question. Not sure why it is so hard to answer mine.
- guerrilla 4y ago
  because yours is a manipulative false dichotomy as demonstrated by the second question.
  - hackinthebochs 4y ago
    Stated more realistically, what will those people do in the mean time while we all wait for the economic structure of the world to reorient itself towards profit sharing? How long are they expected to wait?
    - guerrilla 4y ago
      The economic structure doesn't need to change for these companies to act as if it had, nor for these people to take these jobs if neither thing happens. All three things can be true at the same time. As I said, it was a false dichotomy. That's key to understanding the situation.
      - hackinthebochs 4y ago
        And how do you expect to effect such a change? Is it just a matter of generating sufficient outrage in your mind? Why should these people be forced to wait and suffer while you and your ilk write think pieces about silicon valley? This is the problem with ideas like yours, there is no practical plan on offer to create the reality you are advocating for. Yet, you expect these people who are suffering right now to just sit tight. Its narcissism.
        ClumsyPilot 4y ago
        > there is no practical plan on offer to create the reality you are advocating for...Its narcissism. Let's try this with another Idea: Person A - I am protesting to end slavery / Fix climate change / stop cops killing people for being black or poor Person B - You have no detailed plan how to achieve this, you are a narcissist!
        hackinthebochs 4y ago
        The obvious difference is that (A)'s implementation doesn't also require stopping doing some further X, thereby causing suffering among vulnerable people right now. I'm not sure how you missed that.
  - oh_sigh 4y ago
    How much do you think ML trainers previously getting paid $1.46/hr would get paid if the company distributed 100% of their profits to their employees?
somedude895 4y ago
There's a provider in Kenya, who offers these services at a certain rate. OpenAI isn't going go pay them more and instruct them to pass the money on to the workers. They're businesses, not charities. How are so many comments in this thread so far detached from the real world?

arcticbull 4y ago

They would likely be better off in the long term as time spent on this kind of menial labor represents a massive opportunity cost.

oh_sigh 4y ago
What do you think the employees would be doing if they didn't take this job?
hbrn 4y ago
> They would likely be better off in the long term It's quite a dangerous mindset to think that taking freedom away from other people is a good thing because you know better. In some cases you will be correct. In others, millions will die.
- arcticbull 4y ago
  > In some cases you will be correct. In others, millions will die. And in the average case nothing happens. There's no reason to think it's a barbell shaped distribution with outcomes weighted towards the extremes. Further, it's not a trap-door decision, and it's not a decision that leads to instant death and despair. If it becomes problematic, it's quite straightforward to reverse course.
  - hbrn 4y ago
    > And in the average case nothing happens On average, casino players lose a little bit of money. But with a gambler mindset, you lose everything. > If it becomes problematic, it's quite straightforward to reverse course. And yet two of the worst famines in the last century were not reversed.
    - arcticbull 4y ago
      > On average, casino players lose a little bit of money. But with a gambler mindset, you lose everything. This isn't a casino. > And yet two of the worst famines in the last century were not reversed. That's actually not really the right way of looking at it. You're measuring the things that did happen without measuring the things that didn't happen. How many were stopped? How many were stopped by the Farm Bill alone? I'm not actually sure which of the famines you're referring to but if you're referring to the Holodomor, it was intentional.

Xelynega 4y ago

Let's say we restructure global labour relations such that people arent getting paid a fraction of their worth because of where they were born or choose to live. You know, since we're dealing in hypotheticals.