6 ms·

I know lots of people who have started their careers over in their 30s. My mom, for instance, went to school to become a respiratory therapist. My dad was in hi

by gensym 4y ago

I know lots of people who have started their careers over in their 30s. My mom, for instance, went to school to become a respiratory therapist. My dad was in his 30s when he learned to be a tool and die maker. Both of them needed formal training. I've hired people who have switched careers by going to dev bootcamps, but their situation was different because they hadn't had a period of downtime. In general, though, I love hiring career switchers. They've demonstrated the ability to learn and adapt rather than just let momentum carry them on. As someone who hires software engineers, here's my perspective on this question: > -Will tech co’s ever consider hiring someone like me? Based on your description right now, I probably wouldn't hire you. You sound like you are directionless. I love mentoring new engineers and cultivating their growth, but I need them to have the focus and the drive to do that growth, and the description you have here doesn't paint a picture of someone who would likely be successful at that. However, if I were to see the resume of someone who spent their early 30s directionless and then figured out what they wanted to do and took the serious steps to do that with a record of setting ambitious but reasonable goals for themselves and hitting them, along with developing the beginning of the technical skills needed for the role, I'd be really excited to consider them. I suggest you hire a career coach to explore your options; you're younger than you think. I wish you the best in figuring this out.

imjqz 4y ago
> but I need them to have the focus and the drive to do that growth This is really important. I just spent the last couple of months helping some people transition to the tech industry, and I'm seriously reconsidering whether I want to continue. It's demotivating when people don't have the drive to take initiative or follow through when you're volunteering your time to help them. So OP, there's definitely people out there willing to give you a chance, but you need to show concrete proof that you are worth considering. Like the parent comment said, a record of goal-setting and progress would really help, maybe in the form of non-trivial personal projects or contributions to open source projects. As far as the motivation aspect, talking to a therapist or career coach is a great idea. It's possible that your lack of motivation is not inherent, but rather a result of disillusionment from the bad experiences you've had. You created this post, so while not a huge step, it's a sign that you want to change. Build on that.
- soiler 4y ago
  I've had a similar experience. I was really excited to tutor at my bootcamp after graduating, but after enough people no-showed for tutoring, or turned up with blank homework assignments and making no effort to look things up, I just stopped. It was a waste of my time - I wasn't doing it for the pay, I was doing it for the experience and the connections. I'd love to go back with the confidence to be more selective about who I take on, but I'm not sure if there's a structure for that. And it's okay if someone is really struggling to understand code, but I'm not interested in working with someone who is struggling to understand effort. That's something they should develop before starting to learn programming.
- germinalphrase 4y ago
  Were you helping people specifically transition into technical/engineering roles?
  - imjqz 4y ago
    Yup, teaching people how to code with the goal of eventually getting a technical role.
    - legerdemain 4y ago
      Where did you end up placing them? How did that go?
- kirso 4y ago
  Are you being paid for that? IMO for vast majority - getting into tech is not driven by curiosity but pure money. Which is not necessarily bad when you need to feed your family, but the people rarely last. I've spoken to a banker at some point in his 40s trying to switch to crypto in 2017 when it was all hype. I gave him the roadmap, specific steps and extended network. He never followed through, well because it still required hard work. Not everyone is committed enough to do such work, particularly if it requires trade-off. However if there is something on the line, like 5-10 grand. Different story.
not_a_shill 4y ago
>figured out what they wanted to do and took the serious steps to do that with a record of setting ambitious but reasonable goals for themselves and hitting them What would this actually look like to you on a resume?
- gensym 4y ago
  > What would this actually look like to you on a resume? That's a great question, and I wish I had a great answer. I think this is the sort of thing where a cover letter could be useful. Personally, when I'm reviewing resumes, I usually get a bit of background context from our recruiting department to go along with it. When evaluating candidates, I'm generally looking for things that often don't line up with a line item on a resume but can sometimes be inferred from the collection of items - I'm looking for curiosity, a drive for improvement, a willingness to take risks, etc. So if I saw someone whose resume indicated a directionless period but then also had items that showed a change in trajectory (education, relevant volunteering, relevant projects, etc), it would cause me to take notice. I hire for a small company, but we have high standards, so a lot of hiring involves finding high-performing folks who might be overlooked by FAANGs. Someone who doesn't have obviously great job experience but who does have signs that they've taken initiative and followed through to become an excellent engineer is exactly the sort of person that I work with our recruiting team to find.
- rvba 4y ago
  Perhaps something like: personal blog where you try to make X small apps per year. Or personal project where you write something on your own. Perhaps getting some certificate, everyone knows they arent very useful, so maybe get a cheap one (scrum.org?). So if you have a candidate, who was a baker for their whole life, but in last year: started a blog where they do some coding projec(s), say "implementing tetris in language X" and then making weekly updates to that pet project, like adding score, adding AI. At the same time that candidate got some certificate in last year (everyone knows most of those certs are a scam). To be honest when you are a junior, probably the hardest step is to get that first job; perhaps you can go to some meetups and plainly say there that you are a junior and search for a job.
notesinthefield 4y ago
Where do people actually find career coaches that arent a sham?
- DMell 4y ago
  Not necessarily a career coach, but as a new software engineer I have had a few users on HN take the time to talk through career decisions over zoom with me. It actually led to my first job out of college.
jollofricepeas 4y ago
Nice response! I agree. As someone who has also done a great deal of hiring, having sincere interest is just so important in the big, wide world of software engineering. So now I tell people this… 1. Live for yourself not your mom or dad or societal expectations. 2. Provided you don’t have any responsibilities besides yourself, do whatever you want for a profession. 3. It’s completely OK to have a job that you can stand and hang out with friends. If you’re not motivated by money or the work itself that’s perfectly OK (See #1) 4. Don’t become a developer because someone said you could make a bunch of money. Do it because you love building things. (See #1) 5. If you don’t know what to do then do everything and you’ll find out what you don’t like eventually. (See #1) 6. Life is not a race. Literally none of it matters except how you treat yourself and others. It’s your life. You’re allowed to change your mind but be kind to those who love you and take care of your dependents. (See #2)
- elecush 4y ago
  super lovely response appreciate you and your contribution friend
- MonkeyClub 4y ago
  > having sincere interest is just so important This is a very significant point. I’ve noticed both in myself and in close friends who are in the industry (all of us pushing or having broken past the 40 yo mark) that a mental fatigue has set in, one that particularly attacks interest, rather than acuity. It seems that interest remains strong in the general sense, i.e. interest in tech, but wanes in the specific sense, i.e. wrt interest in an employer’s objectives. It’s not exactly “burn out”, as our mental faculties remain strong. It’s rather a sort of middle age bitterness, which takes away the capacity to invest effort in external targets with the same abandon as before. If anyone has experienced something similar, and broken through to a sunny patch beyond, I’d really appreciate an advice or three.
  - jollofricepeas 4y ago
    Been there.. At 40, we see our employers for the human beings they are so it’s easy to feel cynical and unmotivated. Be honest with yourself about why you’re there and focus on your targets instead of theirs. If your supervisor is cool, they’ll understand and should find a way to link your targets to the companies. If not then consider switching companies or teams if you can. Here’s a few other things… - Therapy - Take a break if you can afford it. Do nothing for 2-3 weeks or even longer. Set no expectations and do your best to not judge yourself for doing nothing. - Make sleep hygiene a priority. - Be honest with yourself. “Employer objectives don’t motivate me anymore so what does?” If you’re not sure anymore, then it’s time to roll your sleeves up and start experiencing new things. Go where your heart desires and dare to tread where you’re fearful. - Find a hobby that involves other people and exercise. This means trying a lot of different things until you find one that clicks for you. It’s amazing how much fog can be lifted by a little exercise and social interaction. Best of luck!
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
nextos 4y ago
This question is getting asked pretty often, so I think perhaps dang should consider some monthly who's mentoring / wants to be mentored threads as a service to the community. Especially given the rough times ahead...
- aaron5 4y ago
  I think this is a great idea.
Hadriel 4y ago
"I suggest you hire a career coach to explore your options;" Re: this, i'm happy to do career coaching consultations if you're interested.

by gensym 4y ago

imjqz 4y ago

> but I need them to have the focus and the drive to do that growth This is really important. I just spent the last couple of months helping some people transition to the tech industry, and I'm seriously reconsidering whether I want to continue. It's demotivating when people don't have the drive to take initiative or follow through when you're volunteering your time to help them. So OP, there's definitely people out there willing to give you a chance, but you need to show concrete proof that you are worth considering. Like the parent comment said, a record of goal-setting and progress would really help, maybe in the form of non-trivial personal projects or contributions to open source projects. As far as the motivation aspect, talking to a therapist or career coach is a great idea. It's possible that your lack of motivation is not inherent, but rather a result of disillusionment from the bad experiences you've had. You created this post, so while not a huge step, it's a sign that you want to change. Build on that.

soiler 4y ago
I've had a similar experience. I was really excited to tutor at my bootcamp after graduating, but after enough people no-showed for tutoring, or turned up with blank homework assignments and making no effort to look things up, I just stopped. It was a waste of my time - I wasn't doing it for the pay, I was doing it for the experience and the connections. I'd love to go back with the confidence to be more selective about who I take on, but I'm not sure if there's a structure for that. And it's okay if someone is really struggling to understand code, but I'm not interested in working with someone who is struggling to understand effort. That's something they should develop before starting to learn programming.
germinalphrase 4y ago
Were you helping people specifically transition into technical/engineering roles?
- imjqz 4y ago
  Yup, teaching people how to code with the goal of eventually getting a technical role.
  - legerdemain 4y ago
    Where did you end up placing them? How did that go?
kirso 4y ago
Are you being paid for that? IMO for vast majority - getting into tech is not driven by curiosity but pure money. Which is not necessarily bad when you need to feed your family, but the people rarely last. I've spoken to a banker at some point in his 40s trying to switch to crypto in 2017 when it was all hype. I gave him the roadmap, specific steps and extended network. He never followed through, well because it still required hard work. Not everyone is committed enough to do such work, particularly if it requires trade-off. However if there is something on the line, like 5-10 grand. Different story.

not_a_shill 4y ago

>figured out what they wanted to do and took the serious steps to do that with a record of setting ambitious but reasonable goals for themselves and hitting them What would this actually look like to you on a resume?

gensym 4y ago
> What would this actually look like to you on a resume? That's a great question, and I wish I had a great answer. I think this is the sort of thing where a cover letter could be useful. Personally, when I'm reviewing resumes, I usually get a bit of background context from our recruiting department to go along with it. When evaluating candidates, I'm generally looking for things that often don't line up with a line item on a resume but can sometimes be inferred from the collection of items - I'm looking for curiosity, a drive for improvement, a willingness to take risks, etc. So if I saw someone whose resume indicated a directionless period but then also had items that showed a change in trajectory (education, relevant volunteering, relevant projects, etc), it would cause me to take notice. I hire for a small company, but we have high standards, so a lot of hiring involves finding high-performing folks who might be overlooked by FAANGs. Someone who doesn't have obviously great job experience but who does have signs that they've taken initiative and followed through to become an excellent engineer is exactly the sort of person that I work with our recruiting team to find.
rvba 4y ago
Perhaps something like: personal blog where you try to make X small apps per year. Or personal project where you write something on your own. Perhaps getting some certificate, everyone knows they arent very useful, so maybe get a cheap one (scrum.org?). So if you have a candidate, who was a baker for their whole life, but in last year: started a blog where they do some coding projec(s), say "implementing tetris in language X" and then making weekly updates to that pet project, like adding score, adding AI. At the same time that candidate got some certificate in last year (everyone knows most of those certs are a scam). To be honest when you are a junior, probably the hardest step is to get that first job; perhaps you can go to some meetups and plainly say there that you are a junior and search for a job.

notesinthefield 4y ago

Where do people actually find career coaches that arent a sham?

DMell 4y ago
Not necessarily a career coach, but as a new software engineer I have had a few users on HN take the time to talk through career decisions over zoom with me. It actually led to my first job out of college.

jollofricepeas 4y ago

Nice response! I agree. As someone who has also done a great deal of hiring, having sincere interest is just so important in the big, wide world of software engineering. So now I tell people this… 1. Live for yourself not your mom or dad or societal expectations. 2. Provided you don’t have any responsibilities besides yourself, do whatever you want for a profession. 3. It’s completely OK to have a job that you can stand and hang out with friends. If you’re not motivated by money or the work itself that’s perfectly OK (See #1) 4. Don’t become a developer because someone said you could make a bunch of money. Do it because you love building things. (See #1) 5. If you don’t know what to do then do everything and you’ll find out what you don’t like eventually. (See #1) 6. Life is not a race. Literally none of it matters except how you treat yourself and others. It’s your life. You’re allowed to change your mind but be kind to those who love you and take care of your dependents. (See #2)

elecush 4y ago
super lovely response appreciate you and your contribution friend
MonkeyClub 4y ago
> having sincere interest is just so important This is a very significant point. I’ve noticed both in myself and in close friends who are in the industry (all of us pushing or having broken past the 40 yo mark) that a mental fatigue has set in, one that particularly attacks interest, rather than acuity. It seems that interest remains strong in the general sense, i.e. interest in tech, but wanes in the specific sense, i.e. wrt interest in an employer’s objectives. It’s not exactly “burn out”, as our mental faculties remain strong. It’s rather a sort of middle age bitterness, which takes away the capacity to invest effort in external targets with the same abandon as before. If anyone has experienced something similar, and broken through to a sunny patch beyond, I’d really appreciate an advice or three.
- jollofricepeas 4y ago
  Been there.. At 40, we see our employers for the human beings they are so it’s easy to feel cynical and unmotivated. Be honest with yourself about why you’re there and focus on your targets instead of theirs. If your supervisor is cool, they’ll understand and should find a way to link your targets to the companies. If not then consider switching companies or teams if you can. Here’s a few other things… - Therapy - Take a break if you can afford it. Do nothing for 2-3 weeks or even longer. Set no expectations and do your best to not judge yourself for doing nothing. - Make sleep hygiene a priority. - Be honest with yourself. “Employer objectives don’t motivate me anymore so what does?” If you’re not sure anymore, then it’s time to roll your sleeves up and start experiencing new things. Go where your heart desires and dare to tread where you’re fearful. - Find a hobby that involves other people and exercise. This means trying a lot of different things until you find one that clicks for you. It’s amazing how much fog can be lifted by a little exercise and social interaction. Best of luck!

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]

nextos 4y ago

This question is getting asked pretty often, so I think perhaps dang should consider some monthly who's mentoring / wants to be mentored threads as a service to the community. Especially given the rough times ahead...

aaron5 4y ago
I think this is a great idea.

Hadriel 4y ago

"I suggest you hire a career coach to explore your options;" Re: this, i'm happy to do career coaching consultations if you're interested.