4 ms·

>Drones capable of monitoring traffic would be even less cost-effective than helicopters, he said, and a drone wouldn't be able to med-evac anyone. Certainly t

>Drones capable of monitoring traffic would be even less cost-effective than helicopters, he said, and a drone wouldn't be able to med-evac anyone. Certainly the med-evac point is valid, but I bet you could come up with a basic traffic monitoring system using an off the shelf Drone today for a fraction of the cost of a helicopter, fuel, and pilot.

greedo 4y ago
A helicopter operated by law enforcement will not be staffed or equipped for providing medical services or evac. Life-Flight helicopters are equipped with a huge amount of medical gear and staffed by medical personnel.
- mikestew 4y ago
  You might want to...reread TFA. Perhaps you missed the last few paragraphs the first time around.
  - Pigalowda 4y ago
    “The chairs and equipment are quickly pulled out and rearranged, and a boy -- conscious and without any obvious major injuries -- is strapped to a stretcher across the floor of the helicopter. I wedge myself back behind the pilot's seat and within 25 minutes from when the call came in, we've delivered him to the roof of the John Muir Medical Center in Walnut Creek.” An absolutely outrageous misuse of resources for a patient who did not need air evac. These flights aren’t cheap and the patient and family are billed. This isn’t one of those ignore and it will go away kind of medical bills either - it will be a charge from the city for $10,000+ and will absolutely go to collections. There isn’t a trained air medic on board nor is there appropriate medical equipment to handle a patient who needs emergency life saving care and rapid delivery to a trauma 1 hospital. In other words, a patient who qualifies for emergency air evacuation. Strapping a stable and visibly uninjured patient to a gurney and flying to the hospital isn’t helpful, it’s idiotic. We already have enough bullshit trauma 1 activations. There’s no need for more, much less ones delivered by bored traffic pilots.
    - mikestew 4y ago
      I wasn't arguing that it was a good idea, only that it took place in contrast to OP's claims.
    - ARandomerDude 4y ago
      > But then a call comes in over the radio...med-evac requested... Thankfully, the police officers received a call for help and responded to it. It's not too hard to imagine what would happen if a person had internal trauma and an unskilled observer said "nah, you look fine." We quite literally could have riots over a cop letting a person die like that.
      - Pigalowda 4y ago
        That’s not the way triage works. There should be a regular ground based EMT or other trained first responder on the scene to assess the patient and determine if an air evacuation to a level 1 hospital is necessary. If deemed necessary then the judicious use of this expensive resource can be performed. An untrained person unprofessionally assessing a patient in the field and then asking for an air evacuation should not happen. At bare minimum the first responder should be trained in performing a trauma survey and checking vital signs. However, there must be situations in which evacuations such as this example are performed inappropriately. Once an evacuation is requested it’s dutifully performed, inappropriate or not. The example in the article is one such case. A non-medical helicopter without proper equipment for life threatening injuries was used. And as you said, if this person had internal injuries and destabilized during flight - what would they have done? Could they place an IV or do intraosseus access, give a fluid bolus, provide Epinephrine/vasopressors, or protect airway and intubate? Can they perform CPR? This evacuation was purely a ride and not properly staffed or equipped for a patient with life threatening injuries or for a patient at risk of destabilizing. The pilot shouldn’t have taken the patient nor should the air evac been requested.
        FireBeyond 4y ago
        This definitely sounds like a failure in the system in your area. Here (PNW) any first responder (but not LE) can _request_ airlift. Specifically in my county: > Any field provider may request air transport via [our 911 dispatch]. An ALS (Advanced Life Support/paramedic) upgrade is required. Transport necessity and destination shall be determined by the ALS provider in consultation with the medical control physician on duty. "if this person had internal injuries and destabilized during flight" Well, in that case, bluntly, the choice of transport probably isn't the biggest concern. Secondarily, our protocols also discuss transportation by ground to a lower tier facility that's close to provide some stabilization before air transport to an appropriate facility.
- wl 4y ago
  A sheriff's helicopter providing evac: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dckKcpqSgDs https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dckKcpqSgDs
  - Pigalowda 4y ago
    OP said medical services and evac, not simply “evac”. Read his statement as “medical services” and “medical evac”. Of course a helicopter can do a generic evacuation. That just means picking up a passenger..
- FireBeyond 4y ago
  Maryland employs state patrol helicopters staffed with paramedics. Over on the west coast, less so (I work as a ground paramedic in the PNW).
mywittyname 4y ago
Cameras are much cheaper than drones. That being said, local law enforcement agencies absolutely use drones. Perhaps not for traffic enforcement, but for general surveillance, especially during events with large crowds.

greedo 4y ago

A helicopter operated by law enforcement will not be staffed or equipped for providing medical services or evac. Life-Flight helicopters are equipped with a huge amount of medical gear and staffed by medical personnel.

mikestew 4y ago
You might want to...reread TFA. Perhaps you missed the last few paragraphs the first time around.
- Pigalowda 4y ago
  “The chairs and equipment are quickly pulled out and rearranged, and a boy -- conscious and without any obvious major injuries -- is strapped to a stretcher across the floor of the helicopter. I wedge myself back behind the pilot's seat and within 25 minutes from when the call came in, we've delivered him to the roof of the John Muir Medical Center in Walnut Creek.” An absolutely outrageous misuse of resources for a patient who did not need air evac. These flights aren’t cheap and the patient and family are billed. This isn’t one of those ignore and it will go away kind of medical bills either - it will be a charge from the city for $10,000+ and will absolutely go to collections. There isn’t a trained air medic on board nor is there appropriate medical equipment to handle a patient who needs emergency life saving care and rapid delivery to a trauma 1 hospital. In other words, a patient who qualifies for emergency air evacuation. Strapping a stable and visibly uninjured patient to a gurney and flying to the hospital isn’t helpful, it’s idiotic. We already have enough bullshit trauma 1 activations. There’s no need for more, much less ones delivered by bored traffic pilots.
  - mikestew 4y ago
    I wasn't arguing that it was a good idea, only that it took place in contrast to OP's claims.
  - ARandomerDude 4y ago
    > But then a call comes in over the radio...med-evac requested... Thankfully, the police officers received a call for help and responded to it. It's not too hard to imagine what would happen if a person had internal trauma and an unskilled observer said "nah, you look fine." We quite literally could have riots over a cop letting a person die like that.
    - Pigalowda 4y ago
      That’s not the way triage works. There should be a regular ground based EMT or other trained first responder on the scene to assess the patient and determine if an air evacuation to a level 1 hospital is necessary. If deemed necessary then the judicious use of this expensive resource can be performed. An untrained person unprofessionally assessing a patient in the field and then asking for an air evacuation should not happen. At bare minimum the first responder should be trained in performing a trauma survey and checking vital signs. However, there must be situations in which evacuations such as this example are performed inappropriately. Once an evacuation is requested it’s dutifully performed, inappropriate or not. The example in the article is one such case. A non-medical helicopter without proper equipment for life threatening injuries was used. And as you said, if this person had internal injuries and destabilized during flight - what would they have done? Could they place an IV or do intraosseus access, give a fluid bolus, provide Epinephrine/vasopressors, or protect airway and intubate? Can they perform CPR? This evacuation was purely a ride and not properly staffed or equipped for a patient with life threatening injuries or for a patient at risk of destabilizing. The pilot shouldn’t have taken the patient nor should the air evac been requested.
      - FireBeyond 4y ago
        This definitely sounds like a failure in the system in your area. Here (PNW) any first responder (but not LE) can _request_ airlift. Specifically in my county: > Any field provider may request air transport via [our 911 dispatch]. An ALS (Advanced Life Support/paramedic) upgrade is required. Transport necessity and destination shall be determined by the ALS provider in consultation with the medical control physician on duty. "if this person had internal injuries and destabilized during flight" Well, in that case, bluntly, the choice of transport probably isn't the biggest concern. Secondarily, our protocols also discuss transportation by ground to a lower tier facility that's close to provide some stabilization before air transport to an appropriate facility.
wl 4y ago
A sheriff's helicopter providing evac: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dckKcpqSgDs https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dckKcpqSgDs
- Pigalowda 4y ago
  OP said medical services and evac, not simply “evac”. Read his statement as “medical services” and “medical evac”. Of course a helicopter can do a generic evacuation. That just means picking up a passenger..
FireBeyond 4y ago
Maryland employs state patrol helicopters staffed with paramedics. Over on the west coast, less so (I work as a ground paramedic in the PNW).

mywittyname 4y ago

Cameras are much cheaper than drones. That being said, local law enforcement agencies absolutely use drones. Perhaps not for traffic enforcement, but for general surveillance, especially during events with large crowds.