6 ms·

So tired of this myth. Restaurant-workers/servers/bartenders make $2.15/hr plus tips. If that amount < minimum wage, the employer has to make up the difference

So tired of this myth. Restaurant-workers/servers/bartenders make $2.15/hr plus tips. If that amount < minimum wage, the employer has to make up the difference. If they don't, they're breaking the law and any server with two brain cells to rub together can and should report them. Unless you're a really crappy server, you make more than minimum wage. Most bartenders make well more than minimum wage. If you want to change the TIPPING industry, that's a horse of a different color.

amalgamated_inc 4y ago
Commies love to talk about all these long-debunked straw men, like "trickle down economics" or the idea that economics isn't real because it assumes people are "rational."
foepys 4y ago
Is minimum wage enough to live, though?
- amalgamated_inc 4y ago
  Does it have to be?
tarotuser 4y ago
> Restaurant-workers/servers/bartenders make $2.15/hr plus tips. If that amount < minimum wage, the employer has to make up the difference. If they don't, they're breaking the law and any server with two brain cells to rub together can and shoukd report them. > Unless you're a really crappy server, you make more than minimum wage. Most bartenders make well more than minimum wage. Well, restaurant work is rife with tax fraud and misclassification of tips everywhere. So yeah, the servers get paid $2.15/hr and hope that tips covers it the rest of the way. Then again, ive seen sleazy shit, like "averaging out over 2 weeks" to make $7.35/hr, rather than the fact the Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday they got a wage equal to $5.00/hr. Or restaurant managers will also demand servers do cleaning and other duties... which would be under $7.35/hr . How do you account for this time if the company/manager is cheating in this way? (Ive never seen a restaurant job switch the person's labor classification to do this.) That's right, you file a grievance with the Dept of Labor. I've been there, and done that. If you want a lawyer, you'll likely be denied since you make peanuts, so the case will be for peanuts. But when the DoL responds, like usually months later, it's likely a moot point. You MIGHT, at the end of a yearlong investigation, MIGHT get paid back for the time. Then again, maybe not. The company can afford lawyers. You cannot, getting paid $2.35/hr
- bena 4y ago
  That's not "sleazy shit". That's how it works. If you got a $500 in tips one 8 hour shift and $20 the next 8 hour shift, you didn't work for $64.65/hr one night and $4.65/h4 the next. No, you worked for an average of $22.15/hr over both days. It's supposed to be averaged over the pay period because the bookkeeping would be murder. And that includes the side work as well. Servers are either really fucking stupid or like to think we are. I understand it's a hustle and we're all trying to get our piece of the pie. But if you really, really, really hate being "underpaid" for specific hours you didn't collect enough in tips. Advocate to remove the tipping system entirely. Push to work under the normal minimum wage laws with no tipping. But no, that's a non-starter with servers. No, their solution is to keep increasing the "suggested minimum tip". It used to be 10%, now it's 20% and climbing. And fuck that noise, "If you can't tip, you can't afford to eat out". When you start asking someone to pay a quarter of the listed price in this weird hidden fee, maybe your entire industry needs an overhaul. End of the day, you need customers just as much as you need employees and being combative with the customers is not going to end well for anyone.
  - true_religion 4y ago
    Servers ought to realize that no one is forcing their restaurants to only pay them the minimum wage (~$2 plus tips). That's a choice their bosses' make. They could pay $15 and still let the servers take tips. They could pay $30 per hour, and mandate no tipping or less tipping. All of these options are fine. It doesn't even have to be done on the federal level, state and local governments can increase the minimum wage. The failure to pay employees isn't a failure from the customers.
tastyfreeze 4y ago
Most states have a higher minimum tipped wage than the federal minimum tipped wage. Seven states don't allow tipped wages at all. Being from a state that doesn't allow tipped wages, I would love to see the cultural expectation for tipping disappear. http://www.minimum-wage.org/tipped http://www.minimum-wage.org/tipped
- korroziya 4y ago
  >I would love to see the cultural expectation for tipping disappear As a former bartender with lots of friends and family still in the industry, I respectfully disagree. Tipping creates patronage. In the right bar/restaurant, you can create regulars who specifically tip you inordinate amounts based on your ability to provide them with reliable, high quality service. My significant other recently visited their home country in Europe where tipping does not exist, and was (to put it a bit colorfully) disgusted with the poor quality of service from each and every bar/cafe/restaurant that they went to. Tipping creates an incentive if done right.
  - tarotuser 4y ago
    https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2016/02/18/i-dare-you-to-read-this-and-still-feel-ok-about-tipping-in-the-united-states/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2016/02/18/i-dar... > Studies have shown that tipping is not an effective incentive for performance in servers. It also creates an environment in which people of color, young people, old people, women, and foreigners tend to get worse service than white males. In a tip-based system, nonwhite servers make less than their white peers for equal work. Consider also the power imbalance between tippers, who are typically male, and servers, 70 percent of whom are female, and consider that the restaurant industry generates five times the average number of sexual harassment claims per worker. And that in many instances employers have allegedly misused tip credits, which let owners pay servers less than minimum wage if tipping makes up the difference.
    - korroziya 4y ago
      [flagged]
dfxm12 4y ago
If they don't, they're breaking the law and any server with two brain cells to rub together can and should report them. It sucks, but wage theft often goes unpunished. https://www.kqed.org/news/11780059/were-being-robbed-california-employers-who-cheat-workers-often-not-held-accountable-by-state https://www.kqed.org/news/11780059/were-being-robbed-califor... On a related note, it also sucks that often people need jobs to meet the work requirements for many government benefits. This gives way more power to the employer and makes it harder for the employee to quit bad situations like this and risk losing those benefits.
blendergeek 4y ago
> Restaurant-workers/servers/bartenders make $2.15/hr plus tips. If that amount < minimum wage, the employer has to make up the difference. Put another way: Restaurant-workers/servers/bartenders make minimum wage + tips. However, the employer is allowed to steal the first (minimum wage - $2.15)/hr in tips. If we keep raising the minimum non-tipped wage but not the minimum tipped wage, eventually restaurants will be fully-pocketing the tips.

amalgamated_inc 4y ago

Commies love to talk about all these long-debunked straw men, like "trickle down economics" or the idea that economics isn't real because it assumes people are "rational."

foepys 4y ago

Is minimum wage enough to live, though?

amalgamated_inc 4y ago
Does it have to be?

tarotuser 4y ago

> Restaurant-workers/servers/bartenders make $2.15/hr plus tips. If that amount < minimum wage, the employer has to make up the difference. If they don't, they're breaking the law and any server with two brain cells to rub together can and shoukd report them. > Unless you're a really crappy server, you make more than minimum wage. Most bartenders make well more than minimum wage. Well, restaurant work is rife with tax fraud and misclassification of tips everywhere. So yeah, the servers get paid $2.15/hr and hope that tips covers it the rest of the way. Then again, ive seen sleazy shit, like "averaging out over 2 weeks" to make $7.35/hr, rather than the fact the Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday they got a wage equal to $5.00/hr. Or restaurant managers will also demand servers do cleaning and other duties... which would be under $7.35/hr . How do you account for this time if the company/manager is cheating in this way? (Ive never seen a restaurant job switch the person's labor classification to do this.) That's right, you file a grievance with the Dept of Labor. I've been there, and done that. If you want a lawyer, you'll likely be denied since you make peanuts, so the case will be for peanuts. But when the DoL responds, like usually months later, it's likely a moot point. You MIGHT, at the end of a yearlong investigation, MIGHT get paid back for the time. Then again, maybe not. The company can afford lawyers. You cannot, getting paid $2.35/hr

bena 4y ago
That's not "sleazy shit". That's how it works. If you got a $500 in tips one 8 hour shift and $20 the next 8 hour shift, you didn't work for $64.65/hr one night and $4.65/h4 the next. No, you worked for an average of $22.15/hr over both days. It's supposed to be averaged over the pay period because the bookkeeping would be murder. And that includes the side work as well. Servers are either really fucking stupid or like to think we are. I understand it's a hustle and we're all trying to get our piece of the pie. But if you really, really, really hate being "underpaid" for specific hours you didn't collect enough in tips. Advocate to remove the tipping system entirely. Push to work under the normal minimum wage laws with no tipping. But no, that's a non-starter with servers. No, their solution is to keep increasing the "suggested minimum tip". It used to be 10%, now it's 20% and climbing. And fuck that noise, "If you can't tip, you can't afford to eat out". When you start asking someone to pay a quarter of the listed price in this weird hidden fee, maybe your entire industry needs an overhaul. End of the day, you need customers just as much as you need employees and being combative with the customers is not going to end well for anyone.
- true_religion 4y ago
  Servers ought to realize that no one is forcing their restaurants to only pay them the minimum wage (~$2 plus tips). That's a choice their bosses' make. They could pay $15 and still let the servers take tips. They could pay $30 per hour, and mandate no tipping or less tipping. All of these options are fine. It doesn't even have to be done on the federal level, state and local governments can increase the minimum wage. The failure to pay employees isn't a failure from the customers.

tastyfreeze 4y ago

Most states have a higher minimum tipped wage than the federal minimum tipped wage. Seven states don't allow tipped wages at all. Being from a state that doesn't allow tipped wages, I would love to see the cultural expectation for tipping disappear. http://www.minimum-wage.org/tipped http://www.minimum-wage.org/tipped

korroziya 4y ago
>I would love to see the cultural expectation for tipping disappear As a former bartender with lots of friends and family still in the industry, I respectfully disagree. Tipping creates patronage. In the right bar/restaurant, you can create regulars who specifically tip you inordinate amounts based on your ability to provide them with reliable, high quality service. My significant other recently visited their home country in Europe where tipping does not exist, and was (to put it a bit colorfully) disgusted with the poor quality of service from each and every bar/cafe/restaurant that they went to. Tipping creates an incentive if done right.
- tarotuser 4y ago
  https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2016/02/18/i-dare-you-to-read-this-and-still-feel-ok-about-tipping-in-the-united-states/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2016/02/18/i-dar... > Studies have shown that tipping is not an effective incentive for performance in servers. It also creates an environment in which people of color, young people, old people, women, and foreigners tend to get worse service than white males. In a tip-based system, nonwhite servers make less than their white peers for equal work. Consider also the power imbalance between tippers, who are typically male, and servers, 70 percent of whom are female, and consider that the restaurant industry generates five times the average number of sexual harassment claims per worker. And that in many instances employers have allegedly misused tip credits, which let owners pay servers less than minimum wage if tipping makes up the difference.
  - korroziya 4y ago
    [flagged]

dfxm12 4y ago

If they don't, they're breaking the law and any server with two brain cells to rub together can and should report them. It sucks, but wage theft often goes unpunished. https://www.kqed.org/news/11780059/were-being-robbed-california-employers-who-cheat-workers-often-not-held-accountable-by-state https://www.kqed.org/news/11780059/were-being-robbed-califor... On a related note, it also sucks that often people need jobs to meet the work requirements for many government benefits. This gives way more power to the employer and makes it harder for the employee to quit bad situations like this and risk losing those benefits.

blendergeek 4y ago

> Restaurant-workers/servers/bartenders make $2.15/hr plus tips. If that amount < minimum wage, the employer has to make up the difference. Put another way: Restaurant-workers/servers/bartenders make minimum wage + tips. However, the employer is allowed to steal the first (minimum wage - $2.15)/hr in tips. If we keep raising the minimum non-tipped wage but not the minimum tipped wage, eventually restaurants will be fully-pocketing the tips.