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Chinese and Indians don't need convincing, they are well aware. They just don't care. Or perhaps, feel less inclined to action when their first world contempora

Chinese and Indians don't need convincing, they are well aware. They just don't care. Or perhaps, feel less inclined to action when their first world contemporaries are still enjoying an orders of magnitude greater per-capita emissions.

LatteLazy 4y ago
That's true. Though the exact same thing is true of most westerners too. The story of the global warming catastrophe is everyone wanting someone else to fix it. The third world blames the first, people now blame people in the past, everyone is very willing to cut emissions just not here or now or me. Actually fixing it would have required everyone to act. At this point I actually think the most interesting thing is the collective delusion that we will fix it (that time is long gone) or that someone somewhere IS acting (they're not). Everyone thinks that are on the right side when basically no one actually is. It's fascinating.
- potamic 4y ago
  I think it's a fallacy to think everyone must act. The West, being major consumers in the world, has a lot more leverage in this area and also more funds to do so. One of the major contributors to third world emissions is that the west outsources a lot of their emissions to these countries. One simple step forward is for the west to take a stance and pick "clean" manufacturers rather than "cheap" manufacturers. Tax corporations higher when they outsource or buy from lax countries. That will put a positive pressure on these countries to adopt clean energy instead of being continuously spurred to ignore emissions and keep costs down for exports.
  - LatteLazy 4y ago
    Let's assume we could solve the whole problem just by making changes in the west. I don't actually believe that. But let's just agree. So now what? You need to get 1.2Bn people to radically reduce their standards of living. You need them to do it immediately. You need to change EVERY aspect of people's lives, from transport to housing to jobs. And you need them to volunteer and like it and do it despite the fact others continue to increase their emissions. Whole regions, countries even, will have to radically change their whole economies (Norway will have to back to being a fish and mobile phone based economy?!). Does anyone think that will happen? Anyone? Really? Developed countries won't do it. Under-Developed countries wont do it. The Rich won't and neither will the poor. The young won't and neither will the old. And that's without getting into the fact you need Many If Not All of those groups, not just some.
zirgs 4y ago
But they are the ones that will suffer more from climate change than those who live in, say, Scandinavia.
jrpt 4y ago
Per capita CO2 emissions of most European countries (like the UK and France) are lower than China at this point. The US might be lower than China by the end of this decade too.

LatteLazy 4y ago

That's true. Though the exact same thing is true of most westerners too. The story of the global warming catastrophe is everyone wanting someone else to fix it. The third world blames the first, people now blame people in the past, everyone is very willing to cut emissions just not here or now or me. Actually fixing it would have required everyone to act. At this point I actually think the most interesting thing is the collective delusion that we will fix it (that time is long gone) or that someone somewhere IS acting (they're not). Everyone thinks that are on the right side when basically no one actually is. It's fascinating.

potamic 4y ago
I think it's a fallacy to think everyone must act. The West, being major consumers in the world, has a lot more leverage in this area and also more funds to do so. One of the major contributors to third world emissions is that the west outsources a lot of their emissions to these countries. One simple step forward is for the west to take a stance and pick "clean" manufacturers rather than "cheap" manufacturers. Tax corporations higher when they outsource or buy from lax countries. That will put a positive pressure on these countries to adopt clean energy instead of being continuously spurred to ignore emissions and keep costs down for exports.
- LatteLazy 4y ago
  Let's assume we could solve the whole problem just by making changes in the west. I don't actually believe that. But let's just agree. So now what? You need to get 1.2Bn people to radically reduce their standards of living. You need them to do it immediately. You need to change EVERY aspect of people's lives, from transport to housing to jobs. And you need them to volunteer and like it and do it despite the fact others continue to increase their emissions. Whole regions, countries even, will have to radically change their whole economies (Norway will have to back to being a fish and mobile phone based economy?!). Does anyone think that will happen? Anyone? Really? Developed countries won't do it. Under-Developed countries wont do it. The Rich won't and neither will the poor. The young won't and neither will the old. And that's without getting into the fact you need Many If Not All of those groups, not just some.

zirgs 4y ago

But they are the ones that will suffer more from climate change than those who live in, say, Scandinavia.

jrpt 4y ago

Per capita CO2 emissions of most European countries (like the UK and France) are lower than China at this point. The US might be lower than China by the end of this decade too.