4 ms·

A question to the community: I find it a bit weird how as an undergraduate you have no idea what a PhD is like. At the same time, no-one really tells you. Ever

A question to the community: I find it a bit weird how as an undergraduate you have no idea what a PhD is like. At the same time, no-one really tells you. Everyone just says "research is quite different to doing an undergrad degree". I have not encountered any educational little seminars or support systems that basically tell you: look, this is is what doing a PhD is like, this is what you generally are expected to do, these are milestones that are average/good to have at these times within your PhD, these are examples of people having done a great PhD, and so on. If your supervisor is a bit hands-off then you're kind of thrown into a job/position and are just expected to figure out what you should do or how it works. I find this odd and very inefficient. Especially in view of how little a fresh graduate student knows. Anyone else finding this weird? Is it similar or different in industry/non-academic jobs?

cf141q5325 4y ago
Its not about efficiency, it is an exam situation.
- bruce343434 4y ago
  what is the exam?
  - cf141q5325 4y ago
    Sorry i didnt see your post Its examining you for the ability to make an independent scientific contribution. Its an exam situation similar to your Bachelor and Master in that matter, only on a higher level. One of the most difficult parts of the Phd is long term planing and coming up with a good plan to tackle your research question.
iamflimflam1 4y ago
It is extremely weird. Certainly my experience when I did my PhD was not a great one. Combining someone who was not mature enough to self direct with a supervisor who didn't know how to manage was a terrible combination. I managed to muddle through, and I did learn a lot over my time. But it's definitely ones of those situations that you back on and wonder what could have been achieved under different circumstances. Edit - to be clear I did my PhD in the UK around 1993 - things are probably quite different now.
- psychomugs 4y ago
  I just finished last year in the US and your first paragraph sums up my experience.
  - iamflimflam1 4y ago
    If it’s any consolation, I do believe being in that situation has made me a better manager/mentor.
    - psychomugs 4y ago
      Definitely. Marathon metaphors aside (I ran an actual marathon during grad school, which would be a closer metaphor if there were no cheering crowds and your coach threw banana peels at you most of the way), I've come to realize that there are very few experiences like it and I'm glad to know they exist.
hideo 4y ago
It is incredibly weird. I can only speak for CS academia and industry. It is very different in the industry. In my industry jobs, there is a lot of structure. New grads are often given very close direction and very specific tasks to complete for at least 3-6 months. Then over the next 1-2 years what's expected from you becomes less and less clear, gradually, until you can function somewhat independently. A new grad complaining to a skip that they were not given clear tasks was a Major Fail for their manager/TL. Your manager/TL is required to do this for a new grad, or they were dinged. In my academic life, you had about as much structure as your advisor provided. About half the advisors did have a plan and genuinely cared. The other half just expected their students to figure it out. It's the students of the former that "succeeded" - i.e. went on to do novel meaningful research. The rest either muddled through till something clicked, or quit. A new student couldn't complain to anyone. There was no structure beyond your advisor. Your entire future is basically in the hands of one person.
blauditore 4y ago
I think the problem is that most students think a PhD is just like studying a bit more, but that's not what it's meant to be. It's largely a multi-year solo project with some support, and it should set you up to become an independent researcher. Part of the problem is that most "university" studies, especially US colleges, are too similar to high school with rigid schedules and teachers closely leading classes throughout the semester. Other models where students are more responsible for organizing and completing their studies foster building independence at an earlier stage already.

cf141q5325 4y ago

Its not about efficiency, it is an exam situation.

bruce343434 4y ago
what is the exam?
- cf141q5325 4y ago
  Sorry i didnt see your post Its examining you for the ability to make an independent scientific contribution. Its an exam situation similar to your Bachelor and Master in that matter, only on a higher level. One of the most difficult parts of the Phd is long term planing and coming up with a good plan to tackle your research question.

iamflimflam1 4y ago

It is extremely weird. Certainly my experience when I did my PhD was not a great one. Combining someone who was not mature enough to self direct with a supervisor who didn't know how to manage was a terrible combination. I managed to muddle through, and I did learn a lot over my time. But it's definitely ones of those situations that you back on and wonder what could have been achieved under different circumstances. Edit - to be clear I did my PhD in the UK around 1993 - things are probably quite different now.

psychomugs 4y ago
I just finished last year in the US and your first paragraph sums up my experience.
- iamflimflam1 4y ago
  If it’s any consolation, I do believe being in that situation has made me a better manager/mentor.
  - psychomugs 4y ago
    Definitely. Marathon metaphors aside (I ran an actual marathon during grad school, which would be a closer metaphor if there were no cheering crowds and your coach threw banana peels at you most of the way), I've come to realize that there are very few experiences like it and I'm glad to know they exist.

hideo 4y ago

It is incredibly weird. I can only speak for CS academia and industry. It is very different in the industry. In my industry jobs, there is a lot of structure. New grads are often given very close direction and very specific tasks to complete for at least 3-6 months. Then over the next 1-2 years what's expected from you becomes less and less clear, gradually, until you can function somewhat independently. A new grad complaining to a skip that they were not given clear tasks was a Major Fail for their manager/TL. Your manager/TL is required to do this for a new grad, or they were dinged. In my academic life, you had about as much structure as your advisor provided. About half the advisors did have a plan and genuinely cared. The other half just expected their students to figure it out. It's the students of the former that "succeeded" - i.e. went on to do novel meaningful research. The rest either muddled through till something clicked, or quit. A new student couldn't complain to anyone. There was no structure beyond your advisor. Your entire future is basically in the hands of one person.

blauditore 4y ago

I think the problem is that most students think a PhD is just like studying a bit more, but that's not what it's meant to be. It's largely a multi-year solo project with some support, and it should set you up to become an independent researcher. Part of the problem is that most "university" studies, especially US colleges, are too similar to high school with rigid schedules and teachers closely leading classes throughout the semester. Other models where students are more responsible for organizing and completing their studies foster building independence at an earlier stage already.