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Oh that's totally normal for people like that. There is an ambient assumption that everyone other than them is an empty vessel, waiting to be filled up by whoev

Oh that's totally normal for people like that. There is an ambient assumption that everyone other than them is an empty vessel, waiting to be filled up by whoever happens to randomly pass by on that day, so if A is seen anywhere in the vicinity of B, then A must automatically have the same views as B, and that applies transitively to B and C and then C and D and so on ad infinitum. The only people immune to this are the woke who, of course, develop all their ideas independently and are totally immune from persuasion of any kind. That's what she means by "nazis at the bar". It's some woke meme that says it's not possible to discuss anything with people who you disagree with, because you'll instantly become exactly like them. That's all craziness of course - some sort of personality disorder in which basic empathy is lost and the way other people's minds work is badly misunderstood. These sort of people can be dangerous to those around them, and probably need psychiatric help, but it's not formally recognized as a disorder.

stonogo 4y ago
You've completely misinterpreted the point of "nazis at the bar." The point of the story is that if you tolerate assholes in a space, that space will become famous amongst assholes for being a safe space for assholery. Nobody "becomes exactly like" anybody, but the people who do not like assholes stop coming around, while the assholes keep coming, so eventually the space is just entirely asshole-occupied. Naziism is used as a signal that this is not regarding "people who you disagree with"; civilized people don't regard Naziism as a valid topic for disagreement -- and the war about that has been over for decades.
- ThrowawayTestr 4y ago
  "Naziism is used as a signal that this is not regarding "people who you disagree with" Yeah no, that's exactly what this is regarding. Anyone who doesn't think exactly like me is a Nazi and because you tolerate people that don't think exactly like me you're a Nazi too.
  - stonogo 4y ago
    How is that any different than "anyone who doesn't think exactly like me is woke and dangerous to others?" I have to wonder if you're deliberately misinterpreting the parable just to give yourself more ammo in this culture war you seem to be fighting. The plain and simple fact is that different communities have different threshholds for what sorts of opinions they find acceptable. The person who posted the article considers Hacker News to accomodate unacceptable opinions. Instead of just noting that fact and moving on, you've decided to get angry on the internet about "woke people." It's really weird, since their opinion doesn't affect you or Hacker News in the slightest. So, what's the problem here? A blogger is mean?
    - ThrowawayTestr 4y ago
      Anyone that unironically calls someone else a Nazi is someone that I do not want to engage in conversation with.
- fidgewidge 4y ago
  > civilized people don't regard Naziism as a valid topic for disagreement see how fluidly you move between naziism as an analogy and asserting that it has a literal meaning such that the "war" about that has been over for decades? nobody here is a literal nazi not even close, so this whole argument is meaningless. > the people who do not like assholes stop coming around the whole point is that actually no, it is possible for people to strongly disagree yet stay talking and adults do so all the time.
  - tarotuser 4y ago
    I personally have ousted a nazi (her words for her identity) from multiple nonprofit board positions. She also worked with the synagogue bomber in Northern Indiana, who is also a nazi, and found guilty. Although it is true that "nazi" was historically thrown around a LOT, especially during the 90's and earlier 2000's, with things like "Soup Nazi" and grammar nazies. Charlottesville was really the wakeup call that no, there are real white nationalists, neonazies, and similar, and they will attempt to take over at all costs. And in the occult, there is Norse religion called Asatru - or faith of the Aesir. Unfortunately, groups like "Asatru Folk Assembly" are literally neonazi front groups, that peddle Asatru but with a racial purity identity. The anti-racist Asatruars have had to fight against real neonazies getting your group, "peacefully" suggesting racial purity, inviting more like them and running off the anti-racists... And after a bit, your group is now a neonazi front. This is a literal thing that happens. These types are not to be tolerated, discussed with, or anything outside of running them off the moment they appear.

stonogo 4y ago

You've completely misinterpreted the point of "nazis at the bar." The point of the story is that if you tolerate assholes in a space, that space will become famous amongst assholes for being a safe space for assholery. Nobody "becomes exactly like" anybody, but the people who do not like assholes stop coming around, while the assholes keep coming, so eventually the space is just entirely asshole-occupied. Naziism is used as a signal that this is not regarding "people who you disagree with"; civilized people don't regard Naziism as a valid topic for disagreement -- and the war about that has been over for decades.

ThrowawayTestr 4y ago
"Naziism is used as a signal that this is not regarding "people who you disagree with" Yeah no, that's exactly what this is regarding. Anyone who doesn't think exactly like me is a Nazi and because you tolerate people that don't think exactly like me you're a Nazi too.
- stonogo 4y ago
  How is that any different than "anyone who doesn't think exactly like me is woke and dangerous to others?" I have to wonder if you're deliberately misinterpreting the parable just to give yourself more ammo in this culture war you seem to be fighting. The plain and simple fact is that different communities have different threshholds for what sorts of opinions they find acceptable. The person who posted the article considers Hacker News to accomodate unacceptable opinions. Instead of just noting that fact and moving on, you've decided to get angry on the internet about "woke people." It's really weird, since their opinion doesn't affect you or Hacker News in the slightest. So, what's the problem here? A blogger is mean?
  - ThrowawayTestr 4y ago
    Anyone that unironically calls someone else a Nazi is someone that I do not want to engage in conversation with.
fidgewidge 4y ago
> civilized people don't regard Naziism as a valid topic for disagreement see how fluidly you move between naziism as an analogy and asserting that it has a literal meaning such that the "war" about that has been over for decades? nobody here is a literal nazi not even close, so this whole argument is meaningless. > the people who do not like assholes stop coming around the whole point is that actually no, it is possible for people to strongly disagree yet stay talking and adults do so all the time.
- tarotuser 4y ago
  I personally have ousted a nazi (her words for her identity) from multiple nonprofit board positions. She also worked with the synagogue bomber in Northern Indiana, who is also a nazi, and found guilty. Although it is true that "nazi" was historically thrown around a LOT, especially during the 90's and earlier 2000's, with things like "Soup Nazi" and grammar nazies. Charlottesville was really the wakeup call that no, there are real white nationalists, neonazies, and similar, and they will attempt to take over at all costs. And in the occult, there is Norse religion called Asatru - or faith of the Aesir. Unfortunately, groups like "Asatru Folk Assembly" are literally neonazi front groups, that peddle Asatru but with a racial purity identity. The anti-racist Asatruars have had to fight against real neonazies getting your group, "peacefully" suggesting racial purity, inviting more like them and running off the anti-racists... And after a bit, your group is now a neonazi front. This is a literal thing that happens. These types are not to be tolerated, discussed with, or anything outside of running them off the moment they appear.