4 ms·

Instagram, YouTube, Facebook, Snapchat and TikTok all forbid third party clients. The only outlier, Reddit, is massively unprofitable. You can't run an advert

by 0xy 4y ago

Instagram, YouTube, Facebook, Snapchat and TikTok all forbid third party clients. The only outlier, Reddit, is massively unprofitable. You can't run an advertising business while inviting competitors to use your content for free.

geysersam 4y ago
It's very unfortunate their business models forbid this. The third party client I use for Reddit is great! (redditisfun) It'd be so much better if we just paid a small sum to own our accounts on those platforms. How much would it cost? Like a Netflix subscription? That'd be worth it. I guess one reason why that isn't possible is that the platforms only work if everyone* is there, irregardless of income. If there's a subscription fee not everyone will afford it, especially young people who are (arguably) culturally more influential.
- benwad 4y ago
  Couldn't they launch a paid ad-free tier that grants API access? i.e. the user pays for the ad-free experience, and the 3rd-party apps would only work for those users who have paid. I can't think of any companies who have done that but it seems like a reasonable solution.
  - geysersam 4y ago
    Personally I'd love that, and also pay for it. If it also reduces the incentives to implement dark patterns to boost "engagement" and collect personal information, that's just cherry on top
notRobot 4y ago
Reddit isn't profitable because that's not their focus. It's pretty clear that they're focusing on growth over profits at the moment.
Crosseye_Jack 4y ago
Twitter never included ads in the feed api, so the clients where just showing the data twitter fed them. You could expose the apis (or embed the ads into the feed api) that fill the ad spots and report back engagements with those ads, then state in TOS that clients not allowed to remove the ads from the feed and impose design rules on how they are presented to users. You could do what Adsense does and create a library for clients to embed into their applications. However I can see client devs wanting a slice of the adrev pie or a discount on their api charges if they were forced to included ads. Imo it’s just easier to forbid 3rd party clients, that you get to control the experience (including ads) however you want / move fast changing things up, without having to go though the process of making sure 3rd party clients are on bored with the changes
anthk 4y ago
Reddit without the power users and moderators choosing 3rd party apps to manage their accounts would be a wasteland.
Nextgrid 4y ago
You can't run an advertising business period. Advertising is always on borrowed time. Even if you have some sort of magical solution that will literally force people to watch ads, their effectiveness will still fade over time as people develop resistance to them (see "banner blindness" for prior art), so in the short term you can compensate by including more ads but there's only so much ads you can include before users leave completely because the ads-to-content ratio is too high. It's time we have less toxic and actually sustainable business models.
rvz 4y ago
> Instagram, YouTube, Facebook, Snapchat and TikTok all forbid third party clients. Exactly. Clubhouse also has a total ban on third-party apps. Discord only allows bots to live on it's platform and has a ban on direct third-party apps.
wartijn_ 4y ago
I think the real problem here is the way it happened. Apps just stopped working about a week ago. There was no communication from Twitter whatsoever until this TOS change, and I wouldn't really call this "communication either" It might make sense to stop supporting third party clients, but announce that something like that will happen instead of doing it unannounced and then ignoring all questions about it. It's their API, so they can do with it whatever they want, but this is really a dick move.
croes 4y ago
Even then, the order in which it was communicated is wrong. 1st you change your ToS 2nd you communicate the change 3rd you block third party apps This is just a shitty move.
ssnistfajen 4y ago
Being pessimistic, I say Reddit will do this eventually. Either on the eve of finally following through an IPO, or a few years post-IPO as the stock price languishes while activist investors angrily shake their fists. Reddit has increasingly rolled out more features that are only accessible through their official app and new mobile/desktop web UI. That makes 3rd party app users more of a liability even though these users are often the main content creators on Reddit that drives traffic. Reddit rode on the mobile network growth in its early years without having to commit a full team on mobile dev, and now the time for payback has come.

by 0xy 4y ago

geysersam 4y ago

It's very unfortunate their business models forbid this. The third party client I use for Reddit is great! (redditisfun) It'd be so much better if we just paid a small sum to own our accounts on those platforms. How much would it cost? Like a Netflix subscription? That'd be worth it. I guess one reason why that isn't possible is that the platforms only work if everyone* is there, irregardless of income. If there's a subscription fee not everyone will afford it, especially young people who are (arguably) culturally more influential.

benwad 4y ago
Couldn't they launch a paid ad-free tier that grants API access? i.e. the user pays for the ad-free experience, and the 3rd-party apps would only work for those users who have paid. I can't think of any companies who have done that but it seems like a reasonable solution.
- geysersam 4y ago
  Personally I'd love that, and also pay for it. If it also reduces the incentives to implement dark patterns to boost "engagement" and collect personal information, that's just cherry on top

notRobot 4y ago

Reddit isn't profitable because that's not their focus. It's pretty clear that they're focusing on growth over profits at the moment.

Crosseye_Jack 4y ago

Twitter never included ads in the feed api, so the clients where just showing the data twitter fed them. You could expose the apis (or embed the ads into the feed api) that fill the ad spots and report back engagements with those ads, then state in TOS that clients not allowed to remove the ads from the feed and impose design rules on how they are presented to users. You could do what Adsense does and create a library for clients to embed into their applications. However I can see client devs wanting a slice of the adrev pie or a discount on their api charges if they were forced to included ads. Imo it’s just easier to forbid 3rd party clients, that you get to control the experience (including ads) however you want / move fast changing things up, without having to go though the process of making sure 3rd party clients are on bored with the changes

anthk 4y ago

Reddit without the power users and moderators choosing 3rd party apps to manage their accounts would be a wasteland.

Nextgrid 4y ago

You can't run an advertising business period. Advertising is always on borrowed time. Even if you have some sort of magical solution that will literally force people to watch ads, their effectiveness will still fade over time as people develop resistance to them (see "banner blindness" for prior art), so in the short term you can compensate by including more ads but there's only so much ads you can include before users leave completely because the ads-to-content ratio is too high. It's time we have less toxic and actually sustainable business models.

rvz 4y ago

> Instagram, YouTube, Facebook, Snapchat and TikTok all forbid third party clients. Exactly. Clubhouse also has a total ban on third-party apps. Discord only allows bots to live on it's platform and has a ban on direct third-party apps.

wartijn_ 4y ago

I think the real problem here is the way it happened. Apps just stopped working about a week ago. There was no communication from Twitter whatsoever until this TOS change, and I wouldn't really call this "communication either" It might make sense to stop supporting third party clients, but announce that something like that will happen instead of doing it unannounced and then ignoring all questions about it. It's their API, so they can do with it whatever they want, but this is really a dick move.

croes 4y ago

Even then, the order in which it was communicated is wrong. 1st you change your ToS 2nd you communicate the change 3rd you block third party apps This is just a shitty move.

ssnistfajen 4y ago

Being pessimistic, I say Reddit will do this eventually. Either on the eve of finally following through an IPO, or a few years post-IPO as the stock price languishes while activist investors angrily shake their fists. Reddit has increasingly rolled out more features that are only accessible through their official app and new mobile/desktop web UI. That makes 3rd party app users more of a liability even though these users are often the main content creators on Reddit that drives traffic. Reddit rode on the mobile network growth in its early years without having to commit a full team on mobile dev, and now the time for payback has come.