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> down to other more selfish reasons, e.g. Edward Snowden's mass theft and leaking of NSA secrets. What was Snowden's selfish reasons?

toss1 4y ago
Snowden was a compromised asset of Russia, working for them. Most of what he released had nothing to do with his stated purpose. People have all kinds of reasons for doing that sort of thing. Sometimes they really believe in the other country, sometimes it's entirely selfish. We won't know even if he says something on the topic, since we can never know his mind, and he'd demonstrated that he's dishonest.
- irjustin 4y ago
  > Snowden was a compromised asset of Russia, working for them. So Snowden was a Russian asset, who wanted to go against Russia by leaking information about a US surveillance program, and then after failing being a Russian asset, went back to Russia...?? I'm having a lot of trouble with this line of logic, can you point me to something credible on this? I can 100% believe there was a selfish purpose, but this doesn't seem like it.
  - toss1 4y ago
    >>go against Russia by leaking information about a US surveillance program The information Snowden leaked was in no way against Russia, it benefited Russia enormously. Even the stuff that was on his claimed point created turmoil in the US to this day, which harms the US and only helps Russia The other stuff he leaked helped Russia directly, and directly endangered and likely got killed US people and/or assets. and of course he claimed his laptop was secure while he was in Hong Kong on his way to Russia. Anyone who thinks it stayed that way and he was allowed/invited to stay in Russia is a fool. There is nothing he did that didn't harm the US and benefit Russia, and he was a very successful Russian op. the mere fact that it is still being debated here in the Us shows how successful it was, even if just a provocation/disinformation operation.
    - irjustin 4y ago
      I took a quick look but please cite something. Lots of claims here: - Russian agent - Directly leaked explicitly on Russia's behalf - directly endangered and got US assets killed > There is nothing he did that didn't harm the US and benefit Russia This is what whistleblowing does - it harms the "entity" you're tattling on. It benefited all of the west's enemies for what it's worth.
vunicipna 4y ago
In an attempt to sound like he had noble reasons for leaking hundreds of thousands of unrelated secret documents to journalists, Snowden claimed it was watching James Clapper's congressional testimony in March 2013 that triggered him to start downloading and exfiltrating classified material. This was a lie. He'd actually started collecting his trove of stolen documents many months prior, in mid-2012, coinciding with arguments with his managers. He had a grudge against his employers, and he acted upon it. Snowden also never mentions that nation-state adversaries got all of this material too. The intelligence agencies of China and Russia must have been rubbing their hands in glee when he fled to them in quick succession. No wonder Russia continues to protect Snowden from being brought to justice in the US, from their point of view he did a stellar espionage job for them. That's not the only bullshit from Snowden either. Even little things like his claimed $200k salary when it was actually closer to $100k-ish. He's a serial fabricator full of grandiose claims about himself and what he did. His elevation to hero status is a moral travesty.
- jrockway 4y ago
  I would like Snowden just as much even if his reason was "I was bored and just felt like fucking some shit up". I also think this was likely good for the NSA. Their internal opsec and controls seem like they were terrible if they existed at all. Snowden was a wake-up call to do better, and hopefully that makes the US even more secure than it was before.
- autoexec 4y ago
  > Snowden claimed it was watching James Clapper's congressional testimony in March 2013 that triggered him to start downloading and exfiltrating classified material. This was a lie. He'd actually started collecting his trove of stolen documents many months prior, in mid-2012, Did he say that the lies to congress were what "triggered to him to start downloading", or was that what finally convinced him to take the truth to the public instead of continuing to bring his concerns to other people within the intelligence community? If I remember correctly, he'd been investigating what looked to him like an unconstitutional program for a while. > coinciding with arguments with his managers. He had a grudge against his employers, Nobody gives up their well paying job (while also making sure they'll never work in their field again), risks their life and their life with their loving partner, gives up their freedom, gives up ever seeing their family again, etc all because they get into an argument with their boss. > Even little things like his claimed $200k salary when it was actually closer to $100k-ish. That'd be a weird thing to lie about, but he has clarified that issue. According to him the $200,000 was his "career high" salary. He took paycuts at Booz Allen Hamilton in order to get closer to the material he wanted to access. He ended up making $122,000 a year, but that wasn't the most he'd ever made doing intelligence work. Is there some evidence that shows he never made $200,000?

toss1 4y ago

Snowden was a compromised asset of Russia, working for them. Most of what he released had nothing to do with his stated purpose. People have all kinds of reasons for doing that sort of thing. Sometimes they really believe in the other country, sometimes it's entirely selfish. We won't know even if he says something on the topic, since we can never know his mind, and he'd demonstrated that he's dishonest.

irjustin 4y ago
> Snowden was a compromised asset of Russia, working for them. So Snowden was a Russian asset, who wanted to go against Russia by leaking information about a US surveillance program, and then after failing being a Russian asset, went back to Russia...?? I'm having a lot of trouble with this line of logic, can you point me to something credible on this? I can 100% believe there was a selfish purpose, but this doesn't seem like it.
- toss1 4y ago
  >>go against Russia by leaking information about a US surveillance program The information Snowden leaked was in no way against Russia, it benefited Russia enormously. Even the stuff that was on his claimed point created turmoil in the US to this day, which harms the US and only helps Russia The other stuff he leaked helped Russia directly, and directly endangered and likely got killed US people and/or assets. and of course he claimed his laptop was secure while he was in Hong Kong on his way to Russia. Anyone who thinks it stayed that way and he was allowed/invited to stay in Russia is a fool. There is nothing he did that didn't harm the US and benefit Russia, and he was a very successful Russian op. the mere fact that it is still being debated here in the Us shows how successful it was, even if just a provocation/disinformation operation.
  - irjustin 4y ago
    I took a quick look but please cite something. Lots of claims here: - Russian agent - Directly leaked explicitly on Russia's behalf - directly endangered and got US assets killed > There is nothing he did that didn't harm the US and benefit Russia This is what whistleblowing does - it harms the "entity" you're tattling on. It benefited all of the west's enemies for what it's worth.

vunicipna 4y ago

In an attempt to sound like he had noble reasons for leaking hundreds of thousands of unrelated secret documents to journalists, Snowden claimed it was watching James Clapper's congressional testimony in March 2013 that triggered him to start downloading and exfiltrating classified material. This was a lie. He'd actually started collecting his trove of stolen documents many months prior, in mid-2012, coinciding with arguments with his managers. He had a grudge against his employers, and he acted upon it. Snowden also never mentions that nation-state adversaries got all of this material too. The intelligence agencies of China and Russia must have been rubbing their hands in glee when he fled to them in quick succession. No wonder Russia continues to protect Snowden from being brought to justice in the US, from their point of view he did a stellar espionage job for them. That's not the only bullshit from Snowden either. Even little things like his claimed $200k salary when it was actually closer to $100k-ish. He's a serial fabricator full of grandiose claims about himself and what he did. His elevation to hero status is a moral travesty.

jrockway 4y ago
I would like Snowden just as much even if his reason was "I was bored and just felt like fucking some shit up". I also think this was likely good for the NSA. Their internal opsec and controls seem like they were terrible if they existed at all. Snowden was a wake-up call to do better, and hopefully that makes the US even more secure than it was before.
autoexec 4y ago
> Snowden claimed it was watching James Clapper's congressional testimony in March 2013 that triggered him to start downloading and exfiltrating classified material. This was a lie. He'd actually started collecting his trove of stolen documents many months prior, in mid-2012, Did he say that the lies to congress were what "triggered to him to start downloading", or was that what finally convinced him to take the truth to the public instead of continuing to bring his concerns to other people within the intelligence community? If I remember correctly, he'd been investigating what looked to him like an unconstitutional program for a while. > coinciding with arguments with his managers. He had a grudge against his employers, Nobody gives up their well paying job (while also making sure they'll never work in their field again), risks their life and their life with their loving partner, gives up their freedom, gives up ever seeing their family again, etc all because they get into an argument with their boss. > Even little things like his claimed $200k salary when it was actually closer to $100k-ish. That'd be a weird thing to lie about, but he has clarified that issue. According to him the $200,000 was his "career high" salary. He took paycuts at Booz Allen Hamilton in order to get closer to the material he wanted to access. He ended up making $122,000 a year, but that wasn't the most he'd ever made doing intelligence work. Is there some evidence that shows he never made $200,000?