7 ms·

If someone was on a no fly list and they wanted the general public to know, they could just put it out there themselves. No? This seems more likely to be used a

If someone was on a no fly list and they wanted the general public to know, they could just put it out there themselves. No? This seems more likely to be used as a form of public shaming than a way to expose injustice.

lmm 4y ago
> If someone was on a no fly list and they wanted the general public to know, they could just put it out there themselves. No? How would they know? How would they prove it? There's a known case a few years ago where a woman was trapped away from the US for 3 years - her estranged husband put her on the list when she went to visit her parents, and boom, she's not allowed into the US and no-one will tell her why, making it easy for him to get divorced and keep the house. (If she'd known what had happened, and been able to put her hands on enough money, she could maybe have flown to Canada/Mexico and entered overland; all she knew was she was denied boarding)
- IAmGraydon 4y ago
  >There's a known case a few years ago where a woman was trapped away from the US for 3 years - her estranged husband put her on the list when she went to visit her parents, and boom, she's not allowed into the US and no-one will tell her why, making it easy for him to get divorced and keep the house. How does one "put her on the list"? It's not that easy.
  - lmm 4y ago
    Apparently if you happen to be working in the right government department then it is. It was only discovered when he applied for a promotion and they did an extended background check.
  - AngriestLettuce 4y ago
    Just because things should work a certain way doesn't mean they do.
  - gggggg5 4y ago
    You can almost certainly get anyone put on this list by simply creating an email account like firstname.lastname@protonmail.com and sending out a few threatening emails to the right places.
anigbrowl 4y ago
It's not like the federal government sends you a letter to tell you about it and what to do if you have an issue with it. While you raise a valid concern, I think it's a lot more likely to function as the basis of a class action suit - a sufficiently plausible and timely piece of evidence that would move a court to compel proper discovery.
- subroutine 4y ago
  That's actually exactly what they do. If you are a U.S. citizen or lawful permanent resident, and the TSC determines that you are on the No Fly List, DHS TRIP will send you a letter informing you of your status on the No Fly List and providing the option to submit and receive additional information. https://www.aclu.org/know-your-rights/what-do-if-you-think-youre-no-fly-list https://www.aclu.org/know-your-rights/what-do-if-you-think-y...
  - anigbrowl 4y ago
    Yes...after you submit a form asking why you were denied boarding, as was stated in the opening paragraph. You don't get notified automatically when you are put on the list.
    - Jerrrry 4y ago
      I have been told a few times that I am on the no fly list, so I avoid planes - that, and I am nearly 7 feet tall. Is my only way to discover if I am allowed on an airplane is to buy a ticket and get subsequently denied on the boarding gate/security? No FOIA request, or anything similar, to circumnavigate this? Thank you.
      - SOLAR_FIELDS 4y ago
        Yes this is insane. I’m a U.S. citizen and if I’m not allowed to fly because of some arbitrary national security measure then that measure had better be public information and known before I book a ticket. If my government has denied you the right to travel without telling you why I genuinely and sincerely apologize and take responsibility because it should not work like that and ideally I should be able to vote out the people who made that decision.

lmm 4y ago

> If someone was on a no fly list and they wanted the general public to know, they could just put it out there themselves. No? How would they know? How would they prove it? There's a known case a few years ago where a woman was trapped away from the US for 3 years - her estranged husband put her on the list when she went to visit her parents, and boom, she's not allowed into the US and no-one will tell her why, making it easy for him to get divorced and keep the house. (If she'd known what had happened, and been able to put her hands on enough money, she could maybe have flown to Canada/Mexico and entered overland; all she knew was she was denied boarding)

IAmGraydon 4y ago
>There's a known case a few years ago where a woman was trapped away from the US for 3 years - her estranged husband put her on the list when she went to visit her parents, and boom, she's not allowed into the US and no-one will tell her why, making it easy for him to get divorced and keep the house. How does one "put her on the list"? It's not that easy.
- lmm 4y ago
  Apparently if you happen to be working in the right government department then it is. It was only discovered when he applied for a promotion and they did an extended background check.
- AngriestLettuce 4y ago
  Just because things should work a certain way doesn't mean they do.
- gggggg5 4y ago
  You can almost certainly get anyone put on this list by simply creating an email account like firstname.lastname@protonmail.com and sending out a few threatening emails to the right places.

anigbrowl 4y ago

It's not like the federal government sends you a letter to tell you about it and what to do if you have an issue with it. While you raise a valid concern, I think it's a lot more likely to function as the basis of a class action suit - a sufficiently plausible and timely piece of evidence that would move a court to compel proper discovery.

subroutine 4y ago
That's actually exactly what they do. If you are a U.S. citizen or lawful permanent resident, and the TSC determines that you are on the No Fly List, DHS TRIP will send you a letter informing you of your status on the No Fly List and providing the option to submit and receive additional information. https://www.aclu.org/know-your-rights/what-do-if-you-think-youre-no-fly-list https://www.aclu.org/know-your-rights/what-do-if-you-think-y...
- anigbrowl 4y ago
  Yes...after you submit a form asking why you were denied boarding, as was stated in the opening paragraph. You don't get notified automatically when you are put on the list.
  - Jerrrry 4y ago
    I have been told a few times that I am on the no fly list, so I avoid planes - that, and I am nearly 7 feet tall. Is my only way to discover if I am allowed on an airplane is to buy a ticket and get subsequently denied on the boarding gate/security? No FOIA request, or anything similar, to circumnavigate this? Thank you.
    - SOLAR_FIELDS 4y ago
      Yes this is insane. I’m a U.S. citizen and if I’m not allowed to fly because of some arbitrary national security measure then that measure had better be public information and known before I book a ticket. If my government has denied you the right to travel without telling you why I genuinely and sincerely apologize and take responsibility because it should not work like that and ideally I should be able to vote out the people who made that decision.