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>Nobody wants a field trip at the expense of a generous vacation allowance Well that's a false dichotomy if I ever saw one. It also sounds like the French guy

>Nobody wants a field trip at the expense of a generous vacation allowance Well that's a false dichotomy if I ever saw one. It also sounds like the French guy was fired for being a miserable person to work with, not because he didn't enjoy a Friday trip to the bowling alley enough. I agree one should not be fired for not attending a team-builder, but one should not be surprised if that reflects on your ability to, frankly, be socially acceptable and either be human to coworkers OR be able to put up with benign, if banal, activities occasionally as a signal that you are socially competent. Social competency is important as a leader or manager, particularly.

trynewideas 4y ago
> Social competency is important as a leader or manager, particularly. Who gets to arbitrate social competence, and by what factors?
- davidgerard 4y ago
  Sales extroverts.
- unethical_ban 4y ago
  Everyone; the group. Hence the social part.
snhly 4y ago
Why can't he simply be judged on his "social competency" within working hours? Organising team builders and socials outside of contract hours is weird and vaguely feudal.
arp242 4y ago
I don't know; it's hard to tell from this article. This in particular stood out to me: > The biggest problem, his lawyer, Isabelle Galy, told me, was that the company culture involved a lot of drinking. “There was a strong incentive and even obligation to consume alcohol,” There have definitely been companies where I've avoided such "activities" because they devolved in to unhinged piss-ups and I was "made" to drink shots (I like a good beer or wine, but I don't like shots at all). I like a good drink, but I hate forcing alcohol on people and don't like it when people drunkenly start smashing stuff. To say nothing of: > Monsieur T. alleges that he was subjected to “humiliating and intrusive practices such as the simulation of sexual acts, the obligation to share a bed with a colleague during seminars, the usage of nicknames and the posting in the office of deformed and doctored photographs.” Basically: don't be surprised of not everyone likes your "team building" activities if they're frat boy piss-ups.
ladyattis 4y ago
I'm a teetotaler, so by your assessment I'm a miserable person to work with? I point this out because I've had to deal with this at my current job and luckily they don't push it with me and respect my no-alcohol position whenever we go out to eat after work. I can't imagine working for any company that demands that I become a drunkard off-hours as a "team building" exercise.
- epistemer 4y ago
  I don't drink either and absolutely no one cares at these type of functions. I can't even imagine pressure to drink in 2023 in the US at an after work event. It is hardly a kegger with everyone chanting "chug chug chug" or you aren't part of the group.

trynewideas 4y ago

> Social competency is important as a leader or manager, particularly. Who gets to arbitrate social competence, and by what factors?

davidgerard 4y ago
Sales extroverts.
unethical_ban 4y ago
Everyone; the group. Hence the social part.

snhly 4y ago

Why can't he simply be judged on his "social competency" within working hours? Organising team builders and socials outside of contract hours is weird and vaguely feudal.

arp242 4y ago

I don't know; it's hard to tell from this article. This in particular stood out to me: > The biggest problem, his lawyer, Isabelle Galy, told me, was that the company culture involved a lot of drinking. “There was a strong incentive and even obligation to consume alcohol,” There have definitely been companies where I've avoided such "activities" because they devolved in to unhinged piss-ups and I was "made" to drink shots (I like a good beer or wine, but I don't like shots at all). I like a good drink, but I hate forcing alcohol on people and don't like it when people drunkenly start smashing stuff. To say nothing of: > Monsieur T. alleges that he was subjected to “humiliating and intrusive practices such as the simulation of sexual acts, the obligation to share a bed with a colleague during seminars, the usage of nicknames and the posting in the office of deformed and doctored photographs.” Basically: don't be surprised of not everyone likes your "team building" activities if they're frat boy piss-ups.

ladyattis 4y ago

I'm a teetotaler, so by your assessment I'm a miserable person to work with? I point this out because I've had to deal with this at my current job and luckily they don't push it with me and respect my no-alcohol position whenever we go out to eat after work. I can't imagine working for any company that demands that I become a drunkard off-hours as a "team building" exercise.

epistemer 4y ago
I don't drink either and absolutely no one cares at these type of functions. I can't even imagine pressure to drink in 2023 in the US at an after work event. It is hardly a kegger with everyone chanting "chug chug chug" or you aren't part of the group.