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It's interesting to consider all of the wild and toxic substances that artists have worked with throughout the millennia. In addition to explaining the chemical

It's interesting to consider all of the wild and toxic substances that artists have worked with throughout the millennia. In addition to explaining the chemical properties of the art, such substances maybe go a long way in explaining the behavior of the artists.

dylan604 4y ago
I remember reading something like this has been studied regarding mercury trying to apply what we know/understand now about mercury poisoning's affects on people and how stories of those known to work with mercury compare. Sadly, I don't remember the results. <shrug>
- ASalazarMX 4y ago
  Oh, maybe I can help about Mercury! https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mad_as_a_hatter https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mad_as_a_hatter I've read that Roman pipes and pots/mugs had lead, but IIRC it's still unclear if it was as toxic as we would fear: https://arstechnica.com/science/2021/07/did-lead-poisoning-cause-downfall-of-roman-empire-the-jury-is-still-out/ https://arstechnica.com/science/2021/07/did-lead-poisoning-c...
  - greenbit 4y ago
    Romans supposedly liked mulled wine. Warmed, mildly acidic fluid in a pewter vessel would pick up a bunch more lead than plain old water would.
    - ErikCorry 4y ago
      It's worse than that. They sweetened the wine with lead. https://www.smithsonianmag.com/arts-culture/sugar-of-lead-a-deadly-sweetener-89984487/ https://www.smithsonianmag.com/arts-culture/sugar-of-lead-a-...
ASalazarMX 4y ago
It's fascinating in a morbid way how many professions involved great health risks no so long ago. (Mad) hatters poisoned by mercury, tanners and chimney sweepers getting cancer, miners getting black lung or simply suffocating... Sadly it still happens today, but hopefully it will keep decreasing, even if we have to pay more for ethical manufacturing.
- ggm 4y ago
  Artificial marble/stone benchtop workers getting Mesothelioma (current, as of 2023 the unions are pushing for the material to be either banned or put into more stringent production process control, although onsite cutting & finishing for sinks and stones and shaping is going to be a problem no matter what)
  - TylerE 4y ago
    Don’t understand the appeal at all. My parents had some sort of stone countertop put in (marble, I think, it’s def. not granite). It’s loud, echoey, and easily damaged.
    - ggm 4y ago
      Easy to clean, modulo things which breach the sealant and stain. Can be used as a dough board or make-pasta-like-martha-stewart work surface (see above re: sealant) or if you are a real slob to cut on (see above re: sealant) Can be installed with pre-carved draining slots to sink, so gets rid of the "where to I stash this ugly plate rack" dilemma for would-be insta-princess shots. Mainly, "it's fashionable" -By now, the 1970s avocado-colour toilet suite has probably moved into historically preserved home space. Stone benches were actually a thing in worker housing in the early 19th century. 'Het Skip' in Amsterdam and the Bauhaus designed worker flats have concrete sinks and workbenches on this design pattern. Amazingly functional for mass production at that time, long lasting (see above re: staining)
      - soperj 4y ago
        I've noticed that polished concrete counter tops can get stained really easily by citrus. Any idea what the answer is there?
hourago 4y ago
The Radium Girls were female factory workers who contracted radiation poisoning from painting watch dials with self-luminous paint. After being told that the paint was harmless, ... instructed to "point" their brushes on their lips in order to give them a fine tip... The women were instructed to point their brushes in this way because using rags or a water rinse caused them to use more time and material, as the paint was made from powdered radium, gum arabic and water. ... The right of individual workers to sue for damages from corporations due to labor abuse was established as a result of the Radium Girls case. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radium_Girls https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radium_Girls
- nvader 4y ago
  Wow, rhymes so strongly with https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phossy_jaw https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phossy_jaw, where white phosphorous was the cause of jaw deformities in matchstick workers.
idlewords 4y ago
Lead paint is perfectly safe to use if you don't eat it or grind the pigment yourself. You can buy it in any art store, along with other super toxic heavy metal pigments.
- mensetmanusman 4y ago
  Even touching it for extended periods of time can be toxic though.
anigbrowl 4y ago
If you are interested in this and want to skip the 'wow isn't art history exciting' books, find a copy of The Materials of the Artist and their Use in Painting by Max Doerner. The text feels very dated at first but quickly picks up speed and gets into the intensely practical details of where pigments come from and how to make them from scratch, eg beating lead into sheets, rolling it up, and leaving it to sit in a jar of (iirc) vinegar and alum for 3 months. Essential reading for aspiring art forgers. On a side note, if you have a chance to see The Night Watch (in Amsterdam's Rijksmuseum) go there and do it. Photographs don't do it justice, the painting is massive and the figures are basically life size. It feels very different in person.
mannyv 4y ago
There's an article out there about pottery glaze and all the bad things they use to get those colors. Google it, it's a fun read.
bazoom42 4y ago
What behavior do you suggest this explains?

dylan604 4y ago

I remember reading something like this has been studied regarding mercury trying to apply what we know/understand now about mercury poisoning's affects on people and how stories of those known to work with mercury compare. Sadly, I don't remember the results. <shrug>

ASalazarMX 4y ago
Oh, maybe I can help about Mercury! https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mad_as_a_hatter https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mad_as_a_hatter I've read that Roman pipes and pots/mugs had lead, but IIRC it's still unclear if it was as toxic as we would fear: https://arstechnica.com/science/2021/07/did-lead-poisoning-cause-downfall-of-roman-empire-the-jury-is-still-out/ https://arstechnica.com/science/2021/07/did-lead-poisoning-c...
- greenbit 4y ago
  Romans supposedly liked mulled wine. Warmed, mildly acidic fluid in a pewter vessel would pick up a bunch more lead than plain old water would.
  - ErikCorry 4y ago
    It's worse than that. They sweetened the wine with lead. https://www.smithsonianmag.com/arts-culture/sugar-of-lead-a-deadly-sweetener-89984487/ https://www.smithsonianmag.com/arts-culture/sugar-of-lead-a-...

ASalazarMX 4y ago

It's fascinating in a morbid way how many professions involved great health risks no so long ago. (Mad) hatters poisoned by mercury, tanners and chimney sweepers getting cancer, miners getting black lung or simply suffocating... Sadly it still happens today, but hopefully it will keep decreasing, even if we have to pay more for ethical manufacturing.

ggm 4y ago
Artificial marble/stone benchtop workers getting Mesothelioma (current, as of 2023 the unions are pushing for the material to be either banned or put into more stringent production process control, although onsite cutting & finishing for sinks and stones and shaping is going to be a problem no matter what)
- TylerE 4y ago
  Don’t understand the appeal at all. My parents had some sort of stone countertop put in (marble, I think, it’s def. not granite). It’s loud, echoey, and easily damaged.
  - ggm 4y ago
    Easy to clean, modulo things which breach the sealant and stain. Can be used as a dough board or make-pasta-like-martha-stewart work surface (see above re: sealant) or if you are a real slob to cut on (see above re: sealant) Can be installed with pre-carved draining slots to sink, so gets rid of the "where to I stash this ugly plate rack" dilemma for would-be insta-princess shots. Mainly, "it's fashionable" -By now, the 1970s avocado-colour toilet suite has probably moved into historically preserved home space. Stone benches were actually a thing in worker housing in the early 19th century. 'Het Skip' in Amsterdam and the Bauhaus designed worker flats have concrete sinks and workbenches on this design pattern. Amazingly functional for mass production at that time, long lasting (see above re: staining)
    - soperj 4y ago
      I've noticed that polished concrete counter tops can get stained really easily by citrus. Any idea what the answer is there?

hourago 4y ago

The Radium Girls were female factory workers who contracted radiation poisoning from painting watch dials with self-luminous paint. After being told that the paint was harmless, ... instructed to "point" their brushes on their lips in order to give them a fine tip... The women were instructed to point their brushes in this way because using rags or a water rinse caused them to use more time and material, as the paint was made from powdered radium, gum arabic and water. ... The right of individual workers to sue for damages from corporations due to labor abuse was established as a result of the Radium Girls case. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radium_Girls https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radium_Girls

nvader 4y ago
Wow, rhymes so strongly with https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phossy_jaw https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phossy_jaw, where white phosphorous was the cause of jaw deformities in matchstick workers.

idlewords 4y ago

Lead paint is perfectly safe to use if you don't eat it or grind the pigment yourself. You can buy it in any art store, along with other super toxic heavy metal pigments.

mensetmanusman 4y ago
Even touching it for extended periods of time can be toxic though.

anigbrowl 4y ago

If you are interested in this and want to skip the 'wow isn't art history exciting' books, find a copy of The Materials of the Artist and their Use in Painting by Max Doerner. The text feels very dated at first but quickly picks up speed and gets into the intensely practical details of where pigments come from and how to make them from scratch, eg beating lead into sheets, rolling it up, and leaving it to sit in a jar of (iirc) vinegar and alum for 3 months. Essential reading for aspiring art forgers. On a side note, if you have a chance to see The Night Watch (in Amsterdam's Rijksmuseum) go there and do it. Photographs don't do it justice, the painting is massive and the figures are basically life size. It feels very different in person.

mannyv 4y ago

There's an article out there about pottery glaze and all the bad things they use to get those colors. Google it, it's a fun read.

bazoom42 4y ago

What behavior do you suggest this explains?