4 ms·

>Police departments are having a hard time recruiting; this is one of the reasons people don't want to work in these departments. Yeah, but your original state

>Police departments are having a hard time recruiting; this is one of the reasons people don't want to work in these departments. Yeah, but your original statement is kind of a lie-by-omission. You're saying they're not able to hire because a bunch of people mistrust the police, as if the blame lays with those people for being mistrustful. But you're leaving out that they mistrust the police because of the police's own actions to earn that mistrust, repeated over decades. > the Minneapolis city council voted 12-0 to completely defund the department and replace the police with "peace officers" who presumably would have had different obligations in terms of interacting with people I live here and you're way wrong. Lisa Goodman would never have voted to "completely defund the police." In fact there was never a vote to "completely defund and replace [MPD]". As you said, they couldn't do that without changing the city charter. There was a long and bitter fight over that charter amendment, with the conservative wing of the council and the conservative mayor fighting and continuing to fight tooth & nail to shield MPD from all reform attempts. I can't think of any meaningful votes on this topic that went 12-0. I wonder what vote you are actually thinking of.

zdragnar 4y ago
> In fact there was never a vote to "completely defund and replace [MPD] Where have you been? There was even a referendum on the matter proposed by the council as a direct result of their earlier vote that failed at the ballot on the issue, after the first version couldn't even get past the charter committee. I've seen a few different vote numbers- I think Lisa either didn't show for the vote, or it did end up at 12-1. She was pretty much alone in opposing the matter though; the vote to send the amendment to the charter was only 11-2 because someone wanted to be a little more moderate. https://www.forbes.com/sites/tommybeer/2020/06/12/minneapolis-city-council-unanimously-votes-to-replace-police-with-community-led-model/ https://www.forbes.com/sites/tommybeer/2020/06/12/minneapoli... > https://minnesotareformer.com/briefs/minneapolis-city-council-sends-policing-charter-amendment-to-commission-for-review/ https://minnesotareformer.com/briefs/minneapolis-city-counci... As a side note, calling Mayor Frey a conservative is hilarious in the US. He is a Democrat and about as conservative as President Obama is. Frey didn't go along with defunding the police because the people who wanted the police defunded make up a minority and there was an election to win. "Having a funded police department" is something that clearly crossed political boundaries in terms of support.
- coldpie 4y ago
  Okay, here's what you're talking about: https://lims.minneapolismn.gov/Download/File/3806/Transforming%20Community%20Safety%20Resolution.pdf https://lims.minneapolismn.gov/Download/File/3806/Transformi... I found that link here: https://www.cnn.com/2020/06/12/us/minneapolis-city-council-resolution-police-reform/index.html https://www.cnn.com/2020/06/12/us/minneapolis-city-council-r... The actual relevant bit is, "[Be it resolved that] the City Council [of Minneapolis] will commence a year long process of community engagement, research, and structural change to create a transformative new model for cultivating safety in our city." There is nothing in there about funding levels or even the structure or presence of the department. I don't think you can characterize that as a resolution "to completely defund and replace the police department." > As a side note, calling Mayor Frey a conservative is hilarious in the US Everything is relative. Within the politics of the city of Minneapolis, Frey's positions are pretty far on the conservative end of the spectrum, which is still to the left of national politics, yes. He opposes police reform, he vetoed full-time bus lanes over the recommendation of the designers, he opposes rent control, big business owners fund his campaigns, his biggest wins are in the richest areas of the city. He wins thanks to Republican voters, who don't otherwise have a feasible candidate to vote for here.
  - zdragnar 4y ago
    By the time this was voted on, 9 or so of the council members had already stood on a stage at a protest and promised to defund the police. There was no one in the city who had any delusion that the "research" would produce anything but the amendment to the city charter. The only real surprise was that they had done such a terrible job at writing the amendment - it was very vague and hand-wavy.
    - coldpie 4y ago
      OK. And so nothing has changed. We still have the exact same public safety system we did before May, 2020. MPD still employs many Derek Chauvins. I will cheer when MPD can't meet its staffing goals because that means fewer Derek Chauvins in my city. And I will continue to vote for local politicians who will try to reduce the harm MPD can inflict on my city by reducing MPD's budget and influence. It would be great if we could have something better. I will keep striving for that, against the conservatives who want to keep Derek Chauvin on my streets.

zdragnar 4y ago

> In fact there was never a vote to "completely defund and replace [MPD] Where have you been? There was even a referendum on the matter proposed by the council as a direct result of their earlier vote that failed at the ballot on the issue, after the first version couldn't even get past the charter committee. I've seen a few different vote numbers- I think Lisa either didn't show for the vote, or it did end up at 12-1. She was pretty much alone in opposing the matter though; the vote to send the amendment to the charter was only 11-2 because someone wanted to be a little more moderate. https://www.forbes.com/sites/tommybeer/2020/06/12/minneapolis-city-council-unanimously-votes-to-replace-police-with-community-led-model/ https://www.forbes.com/sites/tommybeer/2020/06/12/minneapoli... > https://minnesotareformer.com/briefs/minneapolis-city-council-sends-policing-charter-amendment-to-commission-for-review/ https://minnesotareformer.com/briefs/minneapolis-city-counci... As a side note, calling Mayor Frey a conservative is hilarious in the US. He is a Democrat and about as conservative as President Obama is. Frey didn't go along with defunding the police because the people who wanted the police defunded make up a minority and there was an election to win. "Having a funded police department" is something that clearly crossed political boundaries in terms of support.

coldpie 4y ago
Okay, here's what you're talking about: https://lims.minneapolismn.gov/Download/File/3806/Transforming%20Community%20Safety%20Resolution.pdf https://lims.minneapolismn.gov/Download/File/3806/Transformi... I found that link here: https://www.cnn.com/2020/06/12/us/minneapolis-city-council-resolution-police-reform/index.html https://www.cnn.com/2020/06/12/us/minneapolis-city-council-r... The actual relevant bit is, "[Be it resolved that] the City Council [of Minneapolis] will commence a year long process of community engagement, research, and structural change to create a transformative new model for cultivating safety in our city." There is nothing in there about funding levels or even the structure or presence of the department. I don't think you can characterize that as a resolution "to completely defund and replace the police department." > As a side note, calling Mayor Frey a conservative is hilarious in the US Everything is relative. Within the politics of the city of Minneapolis, Frey's positions are pretty far on the conservative end of the spectrum, which is still to the left of national politics, yes. He opposes police reform, he vetoed full-time bus lanes over the recommendation of the designers, he opposes rent control, big business owners fund his campaigns, his biggest wins are in the richest areas of the city. He wins thanks to Republican voters, who don't otherwise have a feasible candidate to vote for here.
- zdragnar 4y ago
  By the time this was voted on, 9 or so of the council members had already stood on a stage at a protest and promised to defund the police. There was no one in the city who had any delusion that the "research" would produce anything but the amendment to the city charter. The only real surprise was that they had done such a terrible job at writing the amendment - it was very vague and hand-wavy.
  - coldpie 4y ago
    OK. And so nothing has changed. We still have the exact same public safety system we did before May, 2020. MPD still employs many Derek Chauvins. I will cheer when MPD can't meet its staffing goals because that means fewer Derek Chauvins in my city. And I will continue to vote for local politicians who will try to reduce the harm MPD can inflict on my city by reducing MPD's budget and influence. It would be great if we could have something better. I will keep striving for that, against the conservatives who want to keep Derek Chauvin on my streets.