5 ms·

I would like to get into crypto (for transfer, not for asset speculation) but can't understand the point of using a decentralized ledger and yet using these cen

by vlod 4y ago

I would like to get into crypto (for transfer, not for asset speculation) but can't understand the point of using a decentralized ledger and yet using these centralized exchanges which control the on/off ramps. Isn't the whole idea not to rely on gatekeepers? There's been news (Canadian truckers incident) where the government told Paypal/Visa/Mastercard etc to stop the flow on crypto currency. Am I missing something obvious, or is localbitcoins/classifieds really the only way?

CrazyPyroLinux 4y ago
As Ron Paul once said about the Federal Reserve system, "If that doesn't make any sense to you, then you understand it just fine."
- strangattractor 4y ago
  You may quote me on this "If that doesn't make any sense to you, then you probably heard if from Ron Paul". https://newrepublic.com/article/94477/ron-paul-distorted-libertarian-ideology https://newrepublic.com/article/94477/ron-paul-distorted-lib...
  - CrazyPyroLinux 4y ago
    What ignorant tripe! Author fancies himself the self-appointed arbiter of "the libertarian creed," yet his criticisms are the usual boring and disingenuous ad hominems of "racist" "sexist" "privilege" I'd expect from a leftist. These are the points he seems to take issue with: 1. Private property is important to liberty. 2. The solution to racism might just not be more racism. 3. Open borders are good in theory but have problems in practice. Some may disagree with these points, particularly on their nuances, but to conclude that they are somehow incompatible with libertarianism is completely brain-dead. I wonder what this learned author and philosopher is up to these days... Oh, that's interesting: https://www.foxnews.com/media/will-wilkinson-lynch-mike-pence-niskanen-center-ny-times https://www.foxnews.com/media/will-wilkinson-lynch-mike-penc...
    - deleted 4y ago
      [deleted]
    - strangattractor 4y ago
      So he has an opinion that is different than yours. Sometimes it is good to read an alternate opinion. I had an English teacher in 8th grade that taught me how to read a news paper. She was from Eastern Europe and had escaped from the Soviets. She was very adamant about using multiple sources. Understanding the motivations of the writer, getting other sources of evidence. I think she was wise and I will always be indebted to Mrs Holtzman. AFAIK the function of the Fed is pretty understandable. Whether you agree that they make the correct decisions that is another matter. It seems to me that in an economy that is producing new things that did not previously exist being able to adjust the amount of currency in circulation to reflect the total value of things in the economy makes a lot of sense. Suppose the 350 million of us had to share the millions dollars that was in existence when the country was founded. There would not be enough for each of us to have a single dollar. That would make the currency pretty useless.
throwaway1777 4y ago
How else would decentralization work besides being peer to peer? Of course it’s more inconvenient that’s why centralization always seems to win.
- vlod 4y ago
  Okay sure, but this seems kinda janky, no? I have to go to a cafe, hand some stranger some cash for btc and sit around for what an hour with them, so it can clear/propagate.
  - bloppe 4y ago
    If you buy a ton of Bitcoin you'll wanna wait for more confirmations. Anything under $100 you can reasonably just wait for 1 or 2 confirmations (10 to 20 minutes). All about managing risk. Or you could buy from a Bitcoin "ATM" there's probably one close by if you're in a decent sized city. Otherwise you pretty much have to deal with an exchange or find an escrow service that will facilitate the transaction or something.
nibbleshifter 4y ago
Try Bisq. Its a P2P exchange system that acts as a good "on ramp".
chordalkeyboard 4y ago
what you're missing is that Bitcoin is still a prototype. The intent was for it to be decentralized but people are still trying to achieve that, and once it became popular, it became overrun with scams and get-rich-quick schemes.
- la_fayette 4y ago
  You can critisize many things about bitcoin, but it is definitely decentralized...
  - daveguy 4y ago
    Unless you use an exchange. The best way to handle payments would be direct transfer from one personal wallet to another. No exchange necessary. No red tape. Buying the Bitcoin with fiat so you can put it in your own wallet for direct transfers is the problem. You generally need a centralized exchange for that. Also, the person you transfer btc to will generally need a centralized exchange so they can convert to fiat and actually use the btc. The whole ecosystem is a mess for people who just want to use it as a way to transfer funds.
    - la_fayette 4y ago
      Hm, there is https://localbitcoins.com/ https://localbitcoins.com/ or https://coinatmradar.com/ https://coinatmradar.com/. It is way cheaper than moneygram or similar services, just check out the options... from where to where do you want to transfer? You would even find people on meetups which would help.
      - daveguy 4y ago
        Interesting. I didn't realize Bitcoin atms were so prevalent.
  - Chabsff 4y ago
    Their point is that the current decentralised Bitcoin is functionally unusable and simply not ready for mass use. In that sense, a truly decentralized Bitcoin that people can actually make use of doesn't exist.
low_tech_love 4y ago
Because crypto is a solution looking for a problem and 99% of the people involved are in it to scam you.
someguydave 4y ago
It is literally illegal in the US to provide unregulated/unregistered “onramp/offramp” services.

by vlod 4y ago

CrazyPyroLinux 4y ago

As Ron Paul once said about the Federal Reserve system, "If that doesn't make any sense to you, then you understand it just fine."

strangattractor 4y ago
You may quote me on this "If that doesn't make any sense to you, then you probably heard if from Ron Paul". https://newrepublic.com/article/94477/ron-paul-distorted-libertarian-ideology https://newrepublic.com/article/94477/ron-paul-distorted-lib...
- CrazyPyroLinux 4y ago
  What ignorant tripe! Author fancies himself the self-appointed arbiter of "the libertarian creed," yet his criticisms are the usual boring and disingenuous ad hominems of "racist" "sexist" "privilege" I'd expect from a leftist. These are the points he seems to take issue with: 1. Private property is important to liberty. 2. The solution to racism might just not be more racism. 3. Open borders are good in theory but have problems in practice. Some may disagree with these points, particularly on their nuances, but to conclude that they are somehow incompatible with libertarianism is completely brain-dead. I wonder what this learned author and philosopher is up to these days... Oh, that's interesting: https://www.foxnews.com/media/will-wilkinson-lynch-mike-pence-niskanen-center-ny-times https://www.foxnews.com/media/will-wilkinson-lynch-mike-penc...
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
  - strangattractor 4y ago
    So he has an opinion that is different than yours. Sometimes it is good to read an alternate opinion. I had an English teacher in 8th grade that taught me how to read a news paper. She was from Eastern Europe and had escaped from the Soviets. She was very adamant about using multiple sources. Understanding the motivations of the writer, getting other sources of evidence. I think she was wise and I will always be indebted to Mrs Holtzman. AFAIK the function of the Fed is pretty understandable. Whether you agree that they make the correct decisions that is another matter. It seems to me that in an economy that is producing new things that did not previously exist being able to adjust the amount of currency in circulation to reflect the total value of things in the economy makes a lot of sense. Suppose the 350 million of us had to share the millions dollars that was in existence when the country was founded. There would not be enough for each of us to have a single dollar. That would make the currency pretty useless.

throwaway1777 4y ago

How else would decentralization work besides being peer to peer? Of course it’s more inconvenient that’s why centralization always seems to win.

vlod 4y ago
Okay sure, but this seems kinda janky, no? I have to go to a cafe, hand some stranger some cash for btc and sit around for what an hour with them, so it can clear/propagate.
- bloppe 4y ago
  If you buy a ton of Bitcoin you'll wanna wait for more confirmations. Anything under $100 you can reasonably just wait for 1 or 2 confirmations (10 to 20 minutes). All about managing risk. Or you could buy from a Bitcoin "ATM" there's probably one close by if you're in a decent sized city. Otherwise you pretty much have to deal with an exchange or find an escrow service that will facilitate the transaction or something.

nibbleshifter 4y ago

Try Bisq. Its a P2P exchange system that acts as a good "on ramp".

chordalkeyboard 4y ago

what you're missing is that Bitcoin is still a prototype. The intent was for it to be decentralized but people are still trying to achieve that, and once it became popular, it became overrun with scams and get-rich-quick schemes.

la_fayette 4y ago
You can critisize many things about bitcoin, but it is definitely decentralized...
- daveguy 4y ago
  Unless you use an exchange. The best way to handle payments would be direct transfer from one personal wallet to another. No exchange necessary. No red tape. Buying the Bitcoin with fiat so you can put it in your own wallet for direct transfers is the problem. You generally need a centralized exchange for that. Also, the person you transfer btc to will generally need a centralized exchange so they can convert to fiat and actually use the btc. The whole ecosystem is a mess for people who just want to use it as a way to transfer funds.
  - la_fayette 4y ago
    Hm, there is https://localbitcoins.com/ https://localbitcoins.com/ or https://coinatmradar.com/ https://coinatmradar.com/. It is way cheaper than moneygram or similar services, just check out the options... from where to where do you want to transfer? You would even find people on meetups which would help.
    - daveguy 4y ago
      Interesting. I didn't realize Bitcoin atms were so prevalent.
- Chabsff 4y ago
  Their point is that the current decentralised Bitcoin is functionally unusable and simply not ready for mass use. In that sense, a truly decentralized Bitcoin that people can actually make use of doesn't exist.

low_tech_love 4y ago

Because crypto is a solution looking for a problem and 99% of the people involved are in it to scam you.

someguydave 4y ago

It is literally illegal in the US to provide unregulated/unregistered “onramp/offramp” services.