7 ms·

Affirmations do not work. Mental health is mechanical. Most anxiety and suffering within mental health are second order effects from unconscious fears that we

Affirmations do not work. Mental health is mechanical. Most anxiety and suffering within mental health are second order effects from unconscious fears that we have about behaviours we feel are risky to take. For example, if you grow up in a household where your personal distress causes distress in others, you will hide your own personal distress and attempt to appear good all of the time. You will have high levels of anxiety in situations in which you might have to admit distress/dissatisfaction/not be a happy person that makes everyone else happy. To improve mental health, more behaviours on the spectrum of all possible behaviours need to become calmly accessible. This allows the brain to be calmer in a wider range of situations; previously a situation that might cause distress might have been avoided/cause a spike in anxiety, now the situation can be faced calmly and the newly integrated behaviour allows the individual to say "sorry, I'm finding this too stressful, I need to stop". Everyone typically has their own unique combination of behaviours which are not easily accessible. In my personal therapy I found that my dreams were a useful way of diagnosing what behaviours I was not comfortable with. I got very interested in this and ultimately completed a Masters in Psychology to write a paper on the topic based on the underlying neurology that occurs during REM sleep. The paper can be read here: https://psyarxiv.com/k6trz https://psyarxiv.com/k6trz It was discussed on HN here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19143590 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19143590

iamsanteri 4y ago
Can you explain more about your line of reasoning and thinking? Any good sources you know about discussing exactly such ideas and details? Thank you!
- FailMore 4y ago
  Not massively. The theory within psychotherapy is quite messy at the moment. It's one of the reasons I'm training to be one. Why Love Matters is a good book though. I also made a long YT video explaining my theory, but it was a long time ago and I haven't watched it in a long time so I can't remember precisely what I was thinking at the time. I think it explains most of the concepts well enough though. It's here if you want to watch it: https://youtu.be/iPPNxc7nApY https://youtu.be/iPPNxc7nApY
- FailMore 4y ago
  Also my comment history contains similar posts with a bit more depth to them
  - iamsanteri 4y ago
    Thanks!
crispyambulance 4y ago
> Affirmations do not work. It depends. They definitely DO work for some people and do nothing for others, YMMV. When they work, the carefully chosen words and ideas in the affirmations help to remind us of things and steer us towards more mindfulness.
- zcw100 4y ago
  By what metric do they work? And what is mindfulness? You have something that can’t be measured or defined.
  - crispyambulance 4y ago
    If one develops a habit of meditating on their affirmations, the ideas within the affirmations are more likely to come to mind during an emotional incident and help to regulate behavior towards the desired outcome. The "coming to mind" of valuable self-regulating ideas is "mindfulness". Yes. It's subjective. That's OK. And yes, it may not work for everyone. People are different and have different ways of reacting and different levels of self-awareness.
savryn 4y ago
I kinda agree with everything except that affirmations DO work, they are like self hypnosis and reach the unconscious in ways that add up. Every time a horrible cringe/guilt memory comes up, instead of expletive Fuuuuuuu (mental or out loud) literally reprogram yourself to immediately say "I love me!" or "Different now" or something else that's positive. The silly goodness of the thing legit interrupts the pain of the memory. Thoughts and feelings that fire together wire together, so you MUST to break the connection of old shit spiraling into bad mood, paralysis, etc in the moment. This is daily housekeeping for mental health. No one has endless time to meditate or waste money on therapy once you have a few of these solid habits, you feel strong enough to do the heavy murky freudian trauma unraveling that's more longterm and releases the tight gordian knots from childhood etc. But daily tools DO work and are just as important.
- savryn 4y ago
  ------- additional ranty side notes--- in person therapy is a waste of time/money for most people unless you're so wealthy you can afford the wise old superstar in their field (most of the best have already dropped dead of old age). less charitable: those who knock the easy/free/practical-yet-harmless-woo are kinda just protecting the value of their profession / special modality, consciously or unconsciously imo, like doctors who don't accept basic fasting thats been around a thousand years, eating keto/carn, or benefits of natural immunity... lol I say don't be loyal to any 'experts', steal whatever works from their cheap books and youtube and other resources across modalities and put together a hodgepodge of stuff for yourself! Research and libgen and then buy physical books and highlighters and a journal and especially a medium/large STUFFED ANIMAL with expressive eyes to mimic eye contact while to talk out loud to instead (like rubber ducking with trauma) and do it yourself. You can process feelings privately, keep a journal of progress and try one book/method at a time at your own pace. Most normal people (esp men) can't cry in front of strangers, but can cry in private. ONE session of therapy is $50 to $150, and only gives you one hour with barely ONE insight or emotional moment a session. Thats after many sessions of fighting defense mechanisms and intellectual tricks to maybe get to the real meat of what's painful. The classics of the field are mostly books that cost $10-15 as paperbacks on amazon and each can provide MONTHS of insight /catharsis if you DO/work thru feelings that arise as u read each chapter instead of just reading it and throwing it aside for the next book. People just race thru and don't APPLY anything, that's as useless as reading a programming book and not trying any of the code/psets. Slow it down, only one chapter a week, the same way in person therapy is only one hour a week, the insights/feelings that you chew on the other 6 days until the next session. Make a schedule and DIY. Unplug your alexa and phone and u can say stuff out loud to your plushie that you cannot legit say to a therapist-- they are truly a stranger with LEGAL BUREAUCRACY and social programming makes them often unable to handle realities of anyone unlike themselves. Therapists gossip and share stories at parties and know little about real privacy in the digital age where two random anecdotes can google-fu most clients. The lame psych majors you met in college are the same people your insurance will cover a pathetic 10 sessions with. They get bored and tune out or jump to their fave diagnostic buckets when they can't untangle your issues and unconsciously need to make themselves feel more competent. The money is bad so they compete for clients and aren't going to tell you hard truths that would HELP you when that risks being dropped, a bad review, bad word of mouth, or risk of legal/license headache. You are just paying for a 'legitimized' comfort zone, rather than a strong helpful truly honest person to guide you out of your own misery-is-safe-and-familiar comfort zone. Incentives are not on your side. The types of people that become therapists are not emotionally hardy, mentally strong, stable, world-weary people with a strong sense of character. If you knew any in real life as friends, you would never hire them. Seriously consider what you disclose and reset your expectations. more ranty side points---------- therapy is like the 80-20 garbage/quality ratio of all fields, especially the affordable ones most likely a mediocre broken person with their own baggage/desires/ego they'll project onto you. Good luck being a hot girl, philosophically and politically anything but a very liberal humanist, having any personality type that isn't already a feely crier who understands your emotions, any one with working class common sense, anyone with aggression, bitterness and/or less 'nice' presentations of symptoms or a myriad other demographic factors. These aspects SO OBVIOUSLY influence the undercurrents between mediocre therapists and patient but they swear as professionals do not or are just further 'grist for the mill', eye roll... You're not gonna magically book an appointment (with or without insurance) and get like Irvin Yalom wise jedi soul that can cut thru your bullshit with affectionate firmness, nor will you get the smart self-dignified composure of Melfi/Paul HBO fictional therapists that created standards of excellence not realistic in real life.... Most practitioners are kinda weak people seeking status and comfort and easy wins, difficult patients annoy them subconsciously, they emotionally flinch from them and truly do nothing to earn the trust necessary for 'real' therapy magic to work. (Everyone recommending "get therapy!" on every thread online is just a middle-class reaction formation, an automatic unthinking refrain when THEY can't handle their own emotions of uselessness/systemic helplessness against the pain and grim reality of being an individual in the world.)
strogonoff 4y ago
Your inner critic is what you think the others think of you, and—setting aside coping techniques, however helpful—truly silencing it is possible in two ways: others stop giving you reasons for fearing their opinion, or you become a sociopath. I find the first option preferable, but getting there is on all of us…
unrealp 4y ago
> Affirmations do not work it is about what story you are telling yourself. Its not the affirmations that work or not work. If it works, its the narrative/story that 'I am doing affirmations everyday and these will make me a better person' . If it doesnt work 'I am doing affirmations but hey whats the point this is silly'.

iamsanteri 4y ago

Can you explain more about your line of reasoning and thinking? Any good sources you know about discussing exactly such ideas and details? Thank you!

FailMore 4y ago
Not massively. The theory within psychotherapy is quite messy at the moment. It's one of the reasons I'm training to be one. Why Love Matters is a good book though. I also made a long YT video explaining my theory, but it was a long time ago and I haven't watched it in a long time so I can't remember precisely what I was thinking at the time. I think it explains most of the concepts well enough though. It's here if you want to watch it: https://youtu.be/iPPNxc7nApY https://youtu.be/iPPNxc7nApY
FailMore 4y ago
Also my comment history contains similar posts with a bit more depth to them
- iamsanteri 4y ago
  Thanks!

crispyambulance 4y ago

> Affirmations do not work. It depends. They definitely DO work for some people and do nothing for others, YMMV. When they work, the carefully chosen words and ideas in the affirmations help to remind us of things and steer us towards more mindfulness.

zcw100 4y ago
By what metric do they work? And what is mindfulness? You have something that can’t be measured or defined.
- crispyambulance 4y ago
  If one develops a habit of meditating on their affirmations, the ideas within the affirmations are more likely to come to mind during an emotional incident and help to regulate behavior towards the desired outcome. The "coming to mind" of valuable self-regulating ideas is "mindfulness". Yes. It's subjective. That's OK. And yes, it may not work for everyone. People are different and have different ways of reacting and different levels of self-awareness.

savryn 4y ago

I kinda agree with everything except that affirmations DO work, they are like self hypnosis and reach the unconscious in ways that add up. Every time a horrible cringe/guilt memory comes up, instead of expletive Fuuuuuuu (mental or out loud) literally reprogram yourself to immediately say "I love me!" or "Different now" or something else that's positive. The silly goodness of the thing legit interrupts the pain of the memory. Thoughts and feelings that fire together wire together, so you MUST to break the connection of old shit spiraling into bad mood, paralysis, etc in the moment. This is daily housekeeping for mental health. No one has endless time to meditate or waste money on therapy once you have a few of these solid habits, you feel strong enough to do the heavy murky freudian trauma unraveling that's more longterm and releases the tight gordian knots from childhood etc. But daily tools DO work and are just as important.

savryn 4y ago
------- additional ranty side notes--- in person therapy is a waste of time/money for most people unless you're so wealthy you can afford the wise old superstar in their field (most of the best have already dropped dead of old age). less charitable: those who knock the easy/free/practical-yet-harmless-woo are kinda just protecting the value of their profession / special modality, consciously or unconsciously imo, like doctors who don't accept basic fasting thats been around a thousand years, eating keto/carn, or benefits of natural immunity... lol I say don't be loyal to any 'experts', steal whatever works from their cheap books and youtube and other resources across modalities and put together a hodgepodge of stuff for yourself! Research and libgen and then buy physical books and highlighters and a journal and especially a medium/large STUFFED ANIMAL with expressive eyes to mimic eye contact while to talk out loud to instead (like rubber ducking with trauma) and do it yourself. You can process feelings privately, keep a journal of progress and try one book/method at a time at your own pace. Most normal people (esp men) can't cry in front of strangers, but can cry in private. ONE session of therapy is $50 to $150, and only gives you one hour with barely ONE insight or emotional moment a session. Thats after many sessions of fighting defense mechanisms and intellectual tricks to maybe get to the real meat of what's painful. The classics of the field are mostly books that cost $10-15 as paperbacks on amazon and each can provide MONTHS of insight /catharsis if you DO/work thru feelings that arise as u read each chapter instead of just reading it and throwing it aside for the next book. People just race thru and don't APPLY anything, that's as useless as reading a programming book and not trying any of the code/psets. Slow it down, only one chapter a week, the same way in person therapy is only one hour a week, the insights/feelings that you chew on the other 6 days until the next session. Make a schedule and DIY. Unplug your alexa and phone and u can say stuff out loud to your plushie that you cannot legit say to a therapist-- they are truly a stranger with LEGAL BUREAUCRACY and social programming makes them often unable to handle realities of anyone unlike themselves. Therapists gossip and share stories at parties and know little about real privacy in the digital age where two random anecdotes can google-fu most clients. The lame psych majors you met in college are the same people your insurance will cover a pathetic 10 sessions with. They get bored and tune out or jump to their fave diagnostic buckets when they can't untangle your issues and unconsciously need to make themselves feel more competent. The money is bad so they compete for clients and aren't going to tell you hard truths that would HELP you when that risks being dropped, a bad review, bad word of mouth, or risk of legal/license headache. You are just paying for a 'legitimized' comfort zone, rather than a strong helpful truly honest person to guide you out of your own misery-is-safe-and-familiar comfort zone. Incentives are not on your side. The types of people that become therapists are not emotionally hardy, mentally strong, stable, world-weary people with a strong sense of character. If you knew any in real life as friends, you would never hire them. Seriously consider what you disclose and reset your expectations. more ranty side points---------- therapy is like the 80-20 garbage/quality ratio of all fields, especially the affordable ones most likely a mediocre broken person with their own baggage/desires/ego they'll project onto you. Good luck being a hot girl, philosophically and politically anything but a very liberal humanist, having any personality type that isn't already a feely crier who understands your emotions, any one with working class common sense, anyone with aggression, bitterness and/or less 'nice' presentations of symptoms or a myriad other demographic factors. These aspects SO OBVIOUSLY influence the undercurrents between mediocre therapists and patient but they swear as professionals do not or are just further 'grist for the mill', eye roll... You're not gonna magically book an appointment (with or without insurance) and get like Irvin Yalom wise jedi soul that can cut thru your bullshit with affectionate firmness, nor will you get the smart self-dignified composure of Melfi/Paul HBO fictional therapists that created standards of excellence not realistic in real life.... Most practitioners are kinda weak people seeking status and comfort and easy wins, difficult patients annoy them subconsciously, they emotionally flinch from them and truly do nothing to earn the trust necessary for 'real' therapy magic to work. (Everyone recommending "get therapy!" on every thread online is just a middle-class reaction formation, an automatic unthinking refrain when THEY can't handle their own emotions of uselessness/systemic helplessness against the pain and grim reality of being an individual in the world.)

strogonoff 4y ago

Your inner critic is what you think the others think of you, and—setting aside coping techniques, however helpful—truly silencing it is possible in two ways: others stop giving you reasons for fearing their opinion, or you become a sociopath. I find the first option preferable, but getting there is on all of us…

unrealp 4y ago

> Affirmations do not work it is about what story you are telling yourself. Its not the affirmations that work or not work. If it works, its the narrative/story that 'I am doing affirmations everyday and these will make me a better person' . If it doesnt work 'I am doing affirmations but hey whats the point this is silly'.