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> As I explained in my statement, cows are finished at factory farms No. They live there from birth to death. A factory farm is not a slaughterhouse. You seem

> As I explained in my statement, cows are finished at factory farms No. They live there from birth to death. A factory farm is not a slaughterhouse. You seem to mistake them for it. https://thehumaneleague.org/article/factory-farmed-cows https://thehumaneleague.org/article/factory-farmed-cows > At no point did I claim anything about how cows don’t consume a massive amount of grain. You actually did. You said in repeated comments to me and others that in the west the cows consume grass. And showed it as an argument against the food inefficiency criticism.

comte7092 4y ago
> They live there from birth to death. Citation needed, no where in your source does it substantiate your claim that cows are reared on factory farms, where they subsequently live out their lives. > You actually did. You said in repeated comments to me and others that in the west the cows consume grass. Because they do feed on grass. Look I get it, you clearly care about animal welfare, which is a good thing, but I was not making the argument you think i was making. Disagreeing with a factually incorrect statement does not mean I am an advocate for the meat industry. The story is more complicated than you make it out to be, and it is important to have it right. Cows in America start on grass and finish on grain, this is a fact. This does no imply that there isn’t a huge amount of grain used in the process. The food inefficiency criticism is true, it is, however, untrue to say that cows spend their entire lives in CAFOs.
- unity1001 4y ago
  > Citation needed, no where in your source Factory farming is the same everywhere. Here's another citation. https://www.aspca.org/protecting-farm-animals/problem-factory-farming#:~:text=%E2%80%9CFactory%20farm%E2%80%9D%20is%20a%20term,are%20crowded%20together%20in%20pens https://www.aspca.org/protecting-farm-animals/problem-factor.... Another. https://thehumaneleague.org/article/what-is-factory-farming https://thehumaneleague.org/article/what-is-factory-farming Another. https://sentientmedia.org/factory-farms/ https://sentientmedia.org/factory-farms/ Another extensive one with more references inside. https://animalequality.org/blog/2022/10/14/factory-farming-facts/ https://animalequality.org/blog/2022/10/14/factory-farming-f... > Because they do feed on grass. Look I get it, you clearly care about animal welfare... however, untrue to say that cows spend their entire lives in CAFOs. That's the old world. You seem to have adopted a better 'factory farming' in your mind than what actually exists, in which you somehow combine old ma & pa small farms with 'some factories'. That doesn't exist anymore. Some stragglers existing in this or that particular state and still fighting 'the man' does not a reality make. There is no competing with the cattle sector that takes in ~$40 bn subsidies and employs factory farms. That is now the reality of cattle farming in the Angloamerican West. And its a major source of conflict in between the Eu and the US because the Eu does not permit the same to be done in Europe. And you miss the elephant in the room: Even if the cattle was 'first grass fed then shipped to factory farms to fatten' like you argue, the factory farming consuming ~70% of the grain in the US at that point would STILL make my argument. That's bad. That's inefficient. There is no defending it, even if your argument was true. This is a long topic, and I have no interest in fighting the inaccurate but more humane perception that you have adopted. The references I provided should be more than enough to get to the bottom of this if you are interested. Good afternoon.
  - comte7092 4y ago
    Not a single one do your sources refutes anything that I said. Or supports your claim that cows spend their whole lives on factory farms. All they say is that they exist and that most animals go through them. Newsflash! That’s what I have been saying all along. > Even if the cattle was 'first grass fed then shipped to factory farms to fatten' like you argue, the factory farming consuming ~70% of the grain in the US at that point would STILL make my argument. That's bad. That's inefficient. There is no defending it, even if your argument was true. You’re arguing against a point I never made! I never said factory farms didn’t exist, that they were good, or that the system itself is good! You’re fighting for the sake of fighting. All I said is that it is true that cows start off on grass. That’s the beginning and end of my point. It’s a factual statement and you do yourself a disservice by continually arguing against basic factual information. Factory farms (for meat) don’t rear animals. They buy animals from other ranches that oversee other parts of the process of raising cattle. They then take those cows and feed them a mountain of grain to fatten them up and slaughter them. It’s gross, it’s terrible for the cows welfare, etc. If you want to criticize the system, though, it is important to understand how it actually works, or you don’t look credible. That is my point, it is incredibly frustrating to be told over and over that I support factory farming, or somehow deny its existence, because I am pointing out information that is false on your part.
    - slothtrop 4y ago
      I'm willing to believe that cows spend most of their lives consuming grass (I started this comment chain) but would also like to see a more compelling source than your anecdotes. If they do spend most of their time consuming grass, I wonder if they are carbon-neutral for that period, or if that requires constant migration to fertilize new lands which might not occur. The big development in this sector is the new seaweed supplements / additives, which should reduce methane emissions by a staggering amount. Some places are beginning to adopt it, not sure about the US. Naturally the green sphere is not thrilled, because there's so much overlap with the vegans.
      - comte7092 4y ago

comte7092 4y ago

> They live there from birth to death. Citation needed, no where in your source does it substantiate your claim that cows are reared on factory farms, where they subsequently live out their lives. > You actually did. You said in repeated comments to me and others that in the west the cows consume grass. Because they do feed on grass. Look I get it, you clearly care about animal welfare, which is a good thing, but I was not making the argument you think i was making. Disagreeing with a factually incorrect statement does not mean I am an advocate for the meat industry. The story is more complicated than you make it out to be, and it is important to have it right. Cows in America start on grass and finish on grain, this is a fact. This does no imply that there isn’t a huge amount of grain used in the process. The food inefficiency criticism is true, it is, however, untrue to say that cows spend their entire lives in CAFOs.

unity1001 4y ago
> Citation needed, no where in your source Factory farming is the same everywhere. Here's another citation. https://www.aspca.org/protecting-farm-animals/problem-factory-farming#:~:text=%E2%80%9CFactory%20farm%E2%80%9D%20is%20a%20term,are%20crowded%20together%20in%20pens https://www.aspca.org/protecting-farm-animals/problem-factor.... Another. https://thehumaneleague.org/article/what-is-factory-farming https://thehumaneleague.org/article/what-is-factory-farming Another. https://sentientmedia.org/factory-farms/ https://sentientmedia.org/factory-farms/ Another extensive one with more references inside. https://animalequality.org/blog/2022/10/14/factory-farming-facts/ https://animalequality.org/blog/2022/10/14/factory-farming-f... > Because they do feed on grass. Look I get it, you clearly care about animal welfare... however, untrue to say that cows spend their entire lives in CAFOs. That's the old world. You seem to have adopted a better 'factory farming' in your mind than what actually exists, in which you somehow combine old ma & pa small farms with 'some factories'. That doesn't exist anymore. Some stragglers existing in this or that particular state and still fighting 'the man' does not a reality make. There is no competing with the cattle sector that takes in ~$40 bn subsidies and employs factory farms. That is now the reality of cattle farming in the Angloamerican West. And its a major source of conflict in between the Eu and the US because the Eu does not permit the same to be done in Europe. And you miss the elephant in the room: Even if the cattle was 'first grass fed then shipped to factory farms to fatten' like you argue, the factory farming consuming ~70% of the grain in the US at that point would STILL make my argument. That's bad. That's inefficient. There is no defending it, even if your argument was true. This is a long topic, and I have no interest in fighting the inaccurate but more humane perception that you have adopted. The references I provided should be more than enough to get to the bottom of this if you are interested. Good afternoon.
- comte7092 4y ago
  Not a single one do your sources refutes anything that I said. Or supports your claim that cows spend their whole lives on factory farms. All they say is that they exist and that most animals go through them. Newsflash! That’s what I have been saying all along. > Even if the cattle was 'first grass fed then shipped to factory farms to fatten' like you argue, the factory farming consuming ~70% of the grain in the US at that point would STILL make my argument. That's bad. That's inefficient. There is no defending it, even if your argument was true. You’re arguing against a point I never made! I never said factory farms didn’t exist, that they were good, or that the system itself is good! You’re fighting for the sake of fighting. All I said is that it is true that cows start off on grass. That’s the beginning and end of my point. It’s a factual statement and you do yourself a disservice by continually arguing against basic factual information. Factory farms (for meat) don’t rear animals. They buy animals from other ranches that oversee other parts of the process of raising cattle. They then take those cows and feed them a mountain of grain to fatten them up and slaughter them. It’s gross, it’s terrible for the cows welfare, etc. If you want to criticize the system, though, it is important to understand how it actually works, or you don’t look credible. That is my point, it is incredibly frustrating to be told over and over that I support factory farming, or somehow deny its existence, because I am pointing out information that is false on your part.
  - slothtrop 4y ago
    I'm willing to believe that cows spend most of their lives consuming grass (I started this comment chain) but would also like to see a more compelling source than your anecdotes. If they do spend most of their time consuming grass, I wonder if they are carbon-neutral for that period, or if that requires constant migration to fertilize new lands which might not occur. The big development in this sector is the new seaweed supplements / additives, which should reduce methane emissions by a staggering amount. Some places are beginning to adopt it, not sure about the US. Naturally the green sphere is not thrilled, because there's so much overlap with the vegans.
    - comte7092 4y ago