4 ms·

> What am I supposed to do in this situation? This. Support systems in the world post computers eating everything is basically HN posts.

TheSpiceIsLife 4y ago
When I had a self-inflicted issue with my non-Google email service I context support and has the issue resolved within a couple hours.
- gravitronic 4y ago
  How does one contact support? Every path I've tried leads to a support community forum. I haven't tried posting there yet as I assumed it was a black hole. Are you saying that that works?
  - tcoff91 4y ago
    He said non-google. There is no decent support from google.
epicureanideal 4y ago
Maybe the next million new jobs is just rebuilding a reasonable level of customer support at all tech companies, funded by modest usage fees. $5/mo, $50/yr, or $500 for lifetime guaranteed permanent access so no lockouts are possible, I would definitely pay for Gmail or an equivalent service. And there are people who I’m sure would pay much more. Another short term option: $500-1000 right now to get a couple hours of support to unlock an account.
- TaylorAlexander 4y ago
  High fees mean that most people even in places like the USA cannot afford it. Would be nice to have modest customer service options for everyone.
  - lazide 4y ago
    That’s expensive.
    - thatguy0900 4y ago
      Won't somebody just think of Googles pocketbook. The only way they can stay afloat is telling people to go fuck themselves when Google messes something about their entire online identity up, clearly.
      - lazide 4y ago
        Or people could pay for the Workspaces account which come with support. Basing someone’s entire online identity on a free account has always been pretty sketchy. We just haven’t come up with a better plan for most people yet.
- munk-a 4y ago
  Maybe, alternatively, this is just an indicator that ad-based "free" services aren't really realistically economical and we should all be paying google 50c/mo for our email addresses. Also, I think it's unreasonable to accept "support just sucks now" as a norm - consumer protections exist to shield us from BS like this and the US has been far too lax in flexing those muscles lately.
  - bee_rider 4y ago
    Gmail is the ultimate root of way too many services for me, but I don’t really see any alternative. For example there are lots of nice paid services out there that look great, but eventually I’m going to forget to pay, or the company will go under, or whatever. IMO we need USPS email addresses for the same reason we have mailboxes. The ability to be contacted digitally is just table stakes nowadays.
    - epicureanideal 4y ago
      > For example there are lots of nice paid services out there that look great, but eventually I’m going to forget to pay, or the company will go under, or whatever. Right, that's why I think there should be an option for a $500 permanent email address, or maybe $50 one-time payment that doesn't guarantee permanent access but does guarantee that the email address will sit there as long as it takes for you to be able to pay to restore your account, without being deleted or reassigned.
      - branon 4y ago
        Purchase a domain and use your registrar's SMTP and IMAP servers. I have been doing this for about 5 years now and it feels great. I get to pay annually for a bundle of related services (domain, DNS, email, ...) instead of freeloading in a place where I'm the product and there is no support. You could also purchase a domain and point MX records anywhere, preferably at some known-good mail service which you pay for.
        efreak 4y ago
- konha 4y ago
  > I would definitely pay for Gmail You already can. It’s called Google Workspace and comes with support.
- reaperducer 4y ago
  Maybe the next million new jobs is just rebuilding a reasonable level of customer support at all tech companies, funded by modest usage fees This already exists. It's why if you have a certain bank balance, when you call the bank a human in your own country picks up and speaks to you in your native tongue immediately. And if you don't have a certain bank balance, you sit on hold for 90 minutes and are repeatedly told how important your call is.
  - Nextgrid 4y ago
    That's called competition. Banks interoperating with each other means competitors serving different segments of the market can spring up. Google does not interoperate and effectively has a monopoly on web search, web video (YouTube) and is one of the two evils owning the mobile market (the other being Apple). There is no way for a competitor to emerge because it just wouldn't be able to interoperate with any of these services.
- phonon 4y ago
  Buying Google One entitles you to general Google apps support. https://one.google.com/about/support https://one.google.com/about/support
  - munk-a 4y ago
    My comprehension of the actual costs of the infrastructure required to run those services leads me to believe that Google One is essentially insanely overpriced. Perhaps it's due to high service needed customers self-selecting for the service or it's just price gouging - but the pricing for that is well above what such limited cloud storage offerings normally cost.
  - tinfever 4y ago
    I have Google One and tried their support once or twice but wasn't impressed. I strongly doubt their ability to help with any somewhat technical question.
  - snowwrestler 4y ago
    Does this really grant access to tech support for weird access issues like the OP? Because if so, it’s cheap insurance at $20/year.
londons_explore 4y ago
Allowing customer service to bypass customer auth requirements is just weakening your system. There will always be a CS agent who is bribed, makes a mistake, etc. And besides, the agent following a flow chart has no better info to make the decision on than a computer. Instead the auth requirements should be sane from the start, well publicised, and make a good tradeoff between letting bad guys in vs locking the real owner out. There should be options beforehand to adjust the balance (eg. enabling 2FA). To prevent lockouts, there should be some time-based weakening. Eg. if you are trying to access your account, and know only some of the required auth info, and have been unable to for 1 week, and, after blasting messages to every associated recovery phone/email address nobody else does either, then you should be allowed in. That solves the classic "my house burnt down with my phone in. All I have is my email and password, but I have no devices left, no backup codes, no access to my phone number, nothing" case.
- gravitronic 4y ago
  In this particular case I feel like it's a bug that backup codes are not treated as secure as 2fa codes, and that I need explicitly a 2fa code to disable 2fa is just broken (in my specific case)
  - vel0city 4y ago
    Right? Backup codes should be considered the most secure overrides for the other resources. What's the point of them being "backup" codes if you'll need something other than the backup for a break-glass event?
  - beej71 4y ago
    It definitely seems like a 1FA backup instead of a 2FA backup in your case. :( I used this horror story to move to Aegis from Authenticator and make an encrypted backup copy of the OTP vault, so thank you for posting. FWIW.
- Merad 4y ago
  > Allowing customer service to bypass customer auth requirements is just weakening your system. There will always be a CS agent who is bribed, makes a mistake, etc. And besides, the agent following a flow chart has no better info to make the decision on than a computer. This is true, but OTOH there will _always_ be edge case scenarios that no one anticipates until they actually happen. Or maybe someone did anticipate, but they were drowned out by the other voices in the room saying "that can't/won't happen," so it wasn't included in the requirements. What happens when a customer encounters a problem that doesn't fit neatly into one of the user journeys that the product team planned out? Are they just shit out of luck?
Havoc 4y ago
That or embarrass the company publicly in front of your large twitter audience
yonz 4y ago
Completely agree! Especially in consumer. I have two situations that are still unresolved. 1. Getting un-banished from Google ads after a failed credit card charge. No one will tell you why, appeal form doesn't tell you why and eventually I figured out a there had been a failed credit card charge 2 years ago. 2. Recovering a Facebook account with an email-password reset. The profile was frozen after it was hacked and all of a sudden a 5 year old phone number is required to unlock the profile after the password reset. --> Help page to submit a petition still tries to send you to login flow. How can there be no way to talk to someone?!?

TheSpiceIsLife 4y ago

When I had a self-inflicted issue with my non-Google email service I context support and has the issue resolved within a couple hours.

gravitronic 4y ago
How does one contact support? Every path I've tried leads to a support community forum. I haven't tried posting there yet as I assumed it was a black hole. Are you saying that that works?
- tcoff91 4y ago
  He said non-google. There is no decent support from google.

epicureanideal 4y ago

Maybe the next million new jobs is just rebuilding a reasonable level of customer support at all tech companies, funded by modest usage fees. $5/mo, $50/yr, or $500 for lifetime guaranteed permanent access so no lockouts are possible, I would definitely pay for Gmail or an equivalent service. And there are people who I’m sure would pay much more. Another short term option: $500-1000 right now to get a couple hours of support to unlock an account.

TaylorAlexander 4y ago
High fees mean that most people even in places like the USA cannot afford it. Would be nice to have modest customer service options for everyone.
- lazide 4y ago
  That’s expensive.
  - thatguy0900 4y ago
    Won't somebody just think of Googles pocketbook. The only way they can stay afloat is telling people to go fuck themselves when Google messes something about their entire online identity up, clearly.
    - lazide 4y ago
      Or people could pay for the Workspaces account which come with support. Basing someone’s entire online identity on a free account has always been pretty sketchy. We just haven’t come up with a better plan for most people yet.
munk-a 4y ago
Maybe, alternatively, this is just an indicator that ad-based "free" services aren't really realistically economical and we should all be paying google 50c/mo for our email addresses. Also, I think it's unreasonable to accept "support just sucks now" as a norm - consumer protections exist to shield us from BS like this and the US has been far too lax in flexing those muscles lately.
- bee_rider 4y ago
  Gmail is the ultimate root of way too many services for me, but I don’t really see any alternative. For example there are lots of nice paid services out there that look great, but eventually I’m going to forget to pay, or the company will go under, or whatever. IMO we need USPS email addresses for the same reason we have mailboxes. The ability to be contacted digitally is just table stakes nowadays.
  - epicureanideal 4y ago
    > For example there are lots of nice paid services out there that look great, but eventually I’m going to forget to pay, or the company will go under, or whatever. Right, that's why I think there should be an option for a $500 permanent email address, or maybe $50 one-time payment that doesn't guarantee permanent access but does guarantee that the email address will sit there as long as it takes for you to be able to pay to restore your account, without being deleted or reassigned.
    - branon 4y ago
      Purchase a domain and use your registrar's SMTP and IMAP servers. I have been doing this for about 5 years now and it feels great. I get to pay annually for a bundle of related services (domain, DNS, email, ...) instead of freeloading in a place where I'm the product and there is no support. You could also purchase a domain and point MX records anywhere, preferably at some known-good mail service which you pay for.
      - efreak 4y ago
konha 4y ago
> I would definitely pay for Gmail You already can. It’s called Google Workspace and comes with support.
reaperducer 4y ago
Maybe the next million new jobs is just rebuilding a reasonable level of customer support at all tech companies, funded by modest usage fees This already exists. It's why if you have a certain bank balance, when you call the bank a human in your own country picks up and speaks to you in your native tongue immediately. And if you don't have a certain bank balance, you sit on hold for 90 minutes and are repeatedly told how important your call is.
- Nextgrid 4y ago
  That's called competition. Banks interoperating with each other means competitors serving different segments of the market can spring up. Google does not interoperate and effectively has a monopoly on web search, web video (YouTube) and is one of the two evils owning the mobile market (the other being Apple). There is no way for a competitor to emerge because it just wouldn't be able to interoperate with any of these services.
phonon 4y ago
Buying Google One entitles you to general Google apps support. https://one.google.com/about/support https://one.google.com/about/support
- munk-a 4y ago
  My comprehension of the actual costs of the infrastructure required to run those services leads me to believe that Google One is essentially insanely overpriced. Perhaps it's due to high service needed customers self-selecting for the service or it's just price gouging - but the pricing for that is well above what such limited cloud storage offerings normally cost.
- tinfever 4y ago
  I have Google One and tried their support once or twice but wasn't impressed. I strongly doubt their ability to help with any somewhat technical question.
- snowwrestler 4y ago
  Does this really grant access to tech support for weird access issues like the OP? Because if so, it’s cheap insurance at $20/year.

londons_explore 4y ago

Allowing customer service to bypass customer auth requirements is just weakening your system. There will always be a CS agent who is bribed, makes a mistake, etc. And besides, the agent following a flow chart has no better info to make the decision on than a computer. Instead the auth requirements should be sane from the start, well publicised, and make a good tradeoff between letting bad guys in vs locking the real owner out. There should be options beforehand to adjust the balance (eg. enabling 2FA). To prevent lockouts, there should be some time-based weakening. Eg. if you are trying to access your account, and know only some of the required auth info, and have been unable to for 1 week, and, after blasting messages to every associated recovery phone/email address nobody else does either, then you should be allowed in. That solves the classic "my house burnt down with my phone in. All I have is my email and password, but I have no devices left, no backup codes, no access to my phone number, nothing" case.

gravitronic 4y ago
In this particular case I feel like it's a bug that backup codes are not treated as secure as 2fa codes, and that I need explicitly a 2fa code to disable 2fa is just broken (in my specific case)
- vel0city 4y ago
  Right? Backup codes should be considered the most secure overrides for the other resources. What's the point of them being "backup" codes if you'll need something other than the backup for a break-glass event?
- beej71 4y ago
  It definitely seems like a 1FA backup instead of a 2FA backup in your case. :( I used this horror story to move to Aegis from Authenticator and make an encrypted backup copy of the OTP vault, so thank you for posting. FWIW.
Merad 4y ago
> Allowing customer service to bypass customer auth requirements is just weakening your system. There will always be a CS agent who is bribed, makes a mistake, etc. And besides, the agent following a flow chart has no better info to make the decision on than a computer. This is true, but OTOH there will _always_ be edge case scenarios that no one anticipates until they actually happen. Or maybe someone did anticipate, but they were drowned out by the other voices in the room saying "that can't/won't happen," so it wasn't included in the requirements. What happens when a customer encounters a problem that doesn't fit neatly into one of the user journeys that the product team planned out? Are they just shit out of luck?

Havoc 4y ago

That or embarrass the company publicly in front of your large twitter audience

yonz 4y ago

Completely agree! Especially in consumer. I have two situations that are still unresolved. 1. Getting un-banished from Google ads after a failed credit card charge. No one will tell you why, appeal form doesn't tell you why and eventually I figured out a there had been a failed credit card charge 2 years ago. 2. Recovering a Facebook account with an email-password reset. The profile was frozen after it was hacked and all of a sudden a 5 year old phone number is required to unlock the profile after the password reset. --> Help page to submit a petition still tries to send you to login flow. How can there be no way to talk to someone?!?