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A friend and I did a (literal) blind taste test with impossible/USDA organic beef/beyond. I was excited to do this as we don't get Impossible in Europe. We bake

by joshvm 4y ago

A friend and I did a (literal) blind taste test with impossible/USDA organic beef/beyond. I was excited to do this as we don't get Impossible in Europe. We baked our own buns etc, cooked to temp with a probe, got some nice cheese on top good stuff. We also did a blind tests of the proteins on their own, and in a plain burger. Neither of us had any trouble picking out which product was which, but it was really interesting. Beyond was the most divisive. It has a very distinct flavour which isn't anything like beef, and not everyone likes. I think it's fine, but it's more of a tasty protein than a beef replacement. Impossible is a really interesting product. It tastes good, texture is good, and I would happily eat a burger made from it. I can definitely tell the difference side-by-side, but I think if it's cooked well-done in a ragu or meatballs, it would be more difficult to tell. The main complaint I have is that it both can be quite hard to form and have a tendency to turn into sludge. So you have to handle them very cold before the fat melts. In Switzerland meat is expensive. Organic ground/minced beef from Farmy is something like $15-20/lb. Organic chicken breast is $50/lb (around $15/breast). Beyond is about $10/lb so there is certainly a cost saving to be had. All the supermarkets have extensive plant based options and vegetarianism/veganism is pretty common here. I think it'll be interesting to see how this pans out globally with improved animal welfare. My next experiment is eggs (which are almost 1 CHF/per!). Unfortunately the egg substitutes are almost the same price per weight from what I can see.

HWR_14 4y ago
Is there non-organic meat in Switzerland? For fresh, organic, skinless, boneless chicken breast you can pay $27/lbs in the US at an upscale store. Or skin-on non-organic at Walmart for under $3. I have no frame of reference for if that is the beast chicken you can get from a fancy grocery store or the standard chicken from a standard store. Your eggs seem to be about 50% higher than US eggs right now. Which seems to work out to a similar multiple if your chicken breast prices are for high-end chicken in a high-end store.
- trynewideas 4y ago
  > A random sample from this summer (2020) shows a kilogram of ham from conventional animal husbandry cost an average of 23 francs (21 euros), whereas a kilogram of organic ham cost 51 francs (47 euros) — more than twice as much. https://www.dw.com/en/switzerland-meat-animals-farmers/a-54550887 https://www.dw.com/en/switzerland-meat-animals-farmers/a-545...
- joshvm 4y ago
  For reference, see another post in my history. The cheapest imported chicken breast you can buy from a typical supermarket is around 10-15 CHF/kg. The high-end organic is around 50-60 CHF/kg which is high welfare from Switzerland. So you can certainly eat meat on a budget, but the good local stuff is priced accordingly.
dr_orpheus 4y ago
>but I think if it's cooked well-done in a ragu or meatballs, it would be more difficult to tell. The main complaint I have is that it both can be quite hard to form and have a tendency to turn into sludge. Agreed on this point and its why most of the time I buy some of the pre-done items (meatballs most often) that I think taste good and work out pretty well.
Sohcahtoa82 4y ago
> In Switzerland meat is expensive. Organic ground/minced beef from Farmy is something like $15-20/lb. Organic chicken breast is $50/lb (around $15/breast). That's insane. I'm in the USA and I can get organic ground beef for under $7/lb. Organic chicken breast for $8/lb. Both can be even lower if I buy in bulk. If you don't care about it being organic, then both of them get to $3/lb.
- JeremyNT 4y ago
  Eating animals is incredibly resource intensive, and farming animals for meat results in externalities that are not paid by the producers or consumers. Perhaps instead it's the USA prices that are "insane."
  - kyleee 4y ago
    Are the Swiss using their extra profits from meat to deal with the externalities you mention?
- poulpy123 4y ago
  Don't forget that salaries in Switzerland are very high. In Geneva, the minimum legal salary before taxes is at 26$/h
- trynewideas 4y ago
  The only places on Earth where beef is as or more expensive are Hong Kong and Korea. It's a steep drop off from those three. Food prices in general are higher in Switzerland (1.6x EU in 2020), but meat is exceptionally expensive (2.3x EU). This affects both organic and non-organic stock. Most of the margins on both are to retailers.[1] > The system only works because Switzerland is a member of the European Free Trade Association (EFTA), but not part of the European Economic Area. It can therefore easily isolate itself from the EU internal market and protect domestic products from foreign competition. > "Switzerland doesn't get flooded with cheap meat from Germany. That's a huge advantage for Swiss farmers," says Martin Rufer. > Anyone entering Switzerland may import a maximum of 1 kilogram of meat or meat products per person. Anything above that will get extremely expensive because of the high customs duties. 1: https://www.dw.com/en/switzerland-meat-animals-farmers/a-54550887 https://www.dw.com/en/switzerland-meat-animals-farmers/a-545...
peterbraden 4y ago
Where are you shopping? It’s not even close to that at migros.
- spoils19 4y ago
  Speak for yourself. Meat has been absurdly expensive for me here, to the point where I've had to cook vegetarian meals on and off.
- joshvm 4y ago
  In the post I mentioned organic from Farmy. But even Naturaplan chicken breasts from the Coop are close to 60CHF/kg: https://www.coop.ch/en/food/meat-fish/packaged-fresh-meat/poultry/naturaplan-organic-chicken-breasts-2-pieces/p/3064218 https://www.coop.ch/en/food/meat-fish/packaged-fresh-meat/po... If you go for Prix Garantie, it's much cheaper at about 12/kg: https://www.coop.ch/en/food/meat-fish/packaged-fresh-meat/poultry/prix-garantie-chicken-breasts-ca/p/3625601 https://www.coop.ch/en/food/meat-fish/packaged-fresh-meat/po... But this isn't Swiss chicken any more, the pack photo from there is Hungary.
orange_fritter 4y ago
Something insidious that happened to a lot of customers with Impossible, and I actually think this is a "good" thing for those who were omnivorous-- Burger King(One of the largest fast food chains in America) was cooking Impossible Burgers in the same grease as real meat. People were saying "Wow Impossible tastes just like beef, maybe better!" I think this kind of transition, while somewhat deceptive, is great because it opens people's minds to the idea of a plant burger. Later on, you can eliminate the beef grease and the same people will continue enjoying Impossible Burgers because their palate has become more receptive. Then perhaps they might be open to other vegetarian options that are less oriented toward animal meat. I think these kind of gradual behavior changes are quite powerful where beating someone over the head with tofu and chickpeas fails.

by joshvm 4y ago

HWR_14 4y ago

Is there non-organic meat in Switzerland? For fresh, organic, skinless, boneless chicken breast you can pay $27/lbs in the US at an upscale store. Or skin-on non-organic at Walmart for under $3. I have no frame of reference for if that is the beast chicken you can get from a fancy grocery store or the standard chicken from a standard store. Your eggs seem to be about 50% higher than US eggs right now. Which seems to work out to a similar multiple if your chicken breast prices are for high-end chicken in a high-end store.

trynewideas 4y ago
> A random sample from this summer (2020) shows a kilogram of ham from conventional animal husbandry cost an average of 23 francs (21 euros), whereas a kilogram of organic ham cost 51 francs (47 euros) — more than twice as much. https://www.dw.com/en/switzerland-meat-animals-farmers/a-54550887 https://www.dw.com/en/switzerland-meat-animals-farmers/a-545...
joshvm 4y ago
For reference, see another post in my history. The cheapest imported chicken breast you can buy from a typical supermarket is around 10-15 CHF/kg. The high-end organic is around 50-60 CHF/kg which is high welfare from Switzerland. So you can certainly eat meat on a budget, but the good local stuff is priced accordingly.

dr_orpheus 4y ago

>but I think if it's cooked well-done in a ragu or meatballs, it would be more difficult to tell. The main complaint I have is that it both can be quite hard to form and have a tendency to turn into sludge. Agreed on this point and its why most of the time I buy some of the pre-done items (meatballs most often) that I think taste good and work out pretty well.

Sohcahtoa82 4y ago

> In Switzerland meat is expensive. Organic ground/minced beef from Farmy is something like $15-20/lb. Organic chicken breast is $50/lb (around $15/breast). That's insane. I'm in the USA and I can get organic ground beef for under $7/lb. Organic chicken breast for $8/lb. Both can be even lower if I buy in bulk. If you don't care about it being organic, then both of them get to $3/lb.

JeremyNT 4y ago
Eating animals is incredibly resource intensive, and farming animals for meat results in externalities that are not paid by the producers or consumers. Perhaps instead it's the USA prices that are "insane."
- kyleee 4y ago
  Are the Swiss using their extra profits from meat to deal with the externalities you mention?
poulpy123 4y ago
Don't forget that salaries in Switzerland are very high. In Geneva, the minimum legal salary before taxes is at 26$/h
trynewideas 4y ago
The only places on Earth where beef is as or more expensive are Hong Kong and Korea. It's a steep drop off from those three. Food prices in general are higher in Switzerland (1.6x EU in 2020), but meat is exceptionally expensive (2.3x EU). This affects both organic and non-organic stock. Most of the margins on both are to retailers.[1] > The system only works because Switzerland is a member of the European Free Trade Association (EFTA), but not part of the European Economic Area. It can therefore easily isolate itself from the EU internal market and protect domestic products from foreign competition. > "Switzerland doesn't get flooded with cheap meat from Germany. That's a huge advantage for Swiss farmers," says Martin Rufer. > Anyone entering Switzerland may import a maximum of 1 kilogram of meat or meat products per person. Anything above that will get extremely expensive because of the high customs duties. 1: https://www.dw.com/en/switzerland-meat-animals-farmers/a-54550887 https://www.dw.com/en/switzerland-meat-animals-farmers/a-545...

peterbraden 4y ago

Where are you shopping? It’s not even close to that at migros.

spoils19 4y ago
Speak for yourself. Meat has been absurdly expensive for me here, to the point where I've had to cook vegetarian meals on and off.
joshvm 4y ago
In the post I mentioned organic from Farmy. But even Naturaplan chicken breasts from the Coop are close to 60CHF/kg: https://www.coop.ch/en/food/meat-fish/packaged-fresh-meat/poultry/naturaplan-organic-chicken-breasts-2-pieces/p/3064218 https://www.coop.ch/en/food/meat-fish/packaged-fresh-meat/po... If you go for Prix Garantie, it's much cheaper at about 12/kg: https://www.coop.ch/en/food/meat-fish/packaged-fresh-meat/poultry/prix-garantie-chicken-breasts-ca/p/3625601 https://www.coop.ch/en/food/meat-fish/packaged-fresh-meat/po... But this isn't Swiss chicken any more, the pack photo from there is Hungary.

orange_fritter 4y ago

Something insidious that happened to a lot of customers with Impossible, and I actually think this is a "good" thing for those who were omnivorous-- Burger King(One of the largest fast food chains in America) was cooking Impossible Burgers in the same grease as real meat. People were saying "Wow Impossible tastes just like beef, maybe better!" I think this kind of transition, while somewhat deceptive, is great because it opens people's minds to the idea of a plant burger. Later on, you can eliminate the beef grease and the same people will continue enjoying Impossible Burgers because their palate has become more receptive. Then perhaps they might be open to other vegetarian options that are less oriented toward animal meat. I think these kind of gradual behavior changes are quite powerful where beating someone over the head with tofu and chickpeas fails.