4 ms·

I'm not a conversative. Presidents don't pass budgets. FAA funding has increased, not decreased. I can criticize my government all I want. You're turning thi

I'm not a conversative. Presidents don't pass budgets. FAA funding has increased, not decreased. I can criticize my government all I want. You're turning this into a political party thing when it's a government service failure.

ceejayoz 4y ago
Presidents propose budgets (the CBO even uses the term "the President's budget"; https://www.cbo.gov/publication/58417 https://www.cbo.gov/publication/58417), sign them into law, threaten Congress with vetos, and have significant influence over their party as a whole. Trump in particular was successful in drubbing opponents out of office; Liz Cheney went from #3 in House leadership to a pariah largely overnight.
- roamerz 4y ago
  >> Liz Cheney went from #3 in House leadership to a pariah largely overnight. Seems to run in the family. The voters in Wyoming appear to agree.
- factsarelolz 4y ago
  > Liz Cheney went from #3 in House leadership to a pariah largely overnight. Oh it's Trump fault Liz did what she did? Nope. Liz thought she'd make a name for herself, she did, and is reaping the results of her actions.
  - ceejayoz 4y ago
    Whatever you think of her actions, her journey (and similar for a variety of other anti-Trump Republicans) illustrates the power a President can have over Congress. This has pretty clear implications for the budget process.
    - butlerm 4y ago
      Trump was not President at the time of the Liz Cheney leadership controversy, that was after he was out of office. Trump is not President anymore and no one should pretend that he is.
      - factsarelolz 4y ago
        Correct. I guess the lines are blurry for those that let Trump live rent free in their brain. Everything is Trump, even when it isn't. The PsyOp really worked.
- drstewart 4y ago
  This is all a lot of weasel words to avoid the fact that the President does not pass the budget, and their proposals bear little resemblance to what actually get passed. Liz Cheney is completely irrelevant here. Post FAA's ACTUAL BUDGET over the last 8 years and let us judge.
  - ceejayoz 4y ago
    I'm not the one who made the budget assertion; you're mad at someone else. I'm just contesting the idea that the President has no power over the US Federal budget. (I'm of the general opinion that the FAA is fairly well funded, has been very effective at its mission, and could still do with some specific capital projects to modernize non-sexy stuff like NOTAM and METAR handling.)
    - butlerm 4y ago
      There is no US federal budget - not a binding one at any rate. The president recommends and Congress passes budgets for internal purposes, but they do not carry the force of law. The numbers that matter are how much Congress appropriates, and if Congress appropriates $X dollars for something the executive branch is expected to spend it, not second guess Congress and say we really didn't want to spend that money.
      - dragonwriter 4y ago
        > There is no US federal budget - not a binding one at any rate. Yes there is. > The president recommends and Congress passes budgets for internal purposes This is simply false. > but they do not carry the force of law. Yes, budget bills, like other bills, have the force of law once passed and either signed by the President or vetoed and the President’s veto overridden by both Houses (the President’s budget proposals do not have the force of law, just like other unpassed legislative proposals.) > The numbers that matter are how much Congress appropriates “The budget” is just the aggregate of tax and appropriations bills (sometimes, there is an annual package entitled a “comprehensive” or “omnibus” budget bill that covers some tax policy and most or all of the annual appropriations, but that’s rare, and even in that case there are typically continuous and multiyear appropriations and tax policies that are left untouched and outside of it, but which are considered part of the “budget” even though they are aren’t part of the “budget bill”; more commonly, this doesn’t occur.) > if Congress appropriates $X dollars for something the executive branch is expected to spend it, not second guess Congress and say we really didn’t want to spend that money. While this is true, and more than just a soft expectation, since Train v. City of New York and the Impoundment Control Act of 1974, it is not invariably the practice notwithstanding the expectation and the law (cf., the withholding of funds appropriated for Ukraine aid that was central to Trump’s first impeachment.)
- butlerm 4y ago
  A budget from the executive branch is just a recommendation. Congress might use use it as a starting point, if they bother to pass a budget at all, which they are not in the habit of doing lately unfortunately. As far as Cheney is concerned, Trump had been out of office for months by the time she lost her leadership position. Anything he did was from the sidelines by that point.
  - dragonwriter 4y ago
    > Congress might use use it as a starting point, if they bother to pass a budget at all, which they are not in the habit of doing lately unfortunately. A budget is a budget even if it is neither comprehensive (i.e., all functions in one bill) nor for a full fiscal year at a time nor uses the word “budget” in its title.
    - butlerm 4y ago
      In congressional nomenclature however a budget is a guideline for appropriations bills, not something that carries the force of law. And Congress is quite specific about what it appropriates money for, even if it does it all in a several thousand page bill at the last minute. So a federal agency like the FAA generally prepares a budget recommendation that would be submitted to Congress as part of the president's budget, but then Congress would decide how much (if any) to appropriate for each activity, down to the level of individual programs in many cases. By the time Congress gets done with it becomes a list of appropriations, and the agency has no authority to transfer things around, spend money on what Congress did not authorize, or even purposely refuse to spend money (or spend less without a good reason) on what Congress has appropriated funding for.
TehCorwiz 4y ago
https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/trafficandcommuting/white-house-endorses-plan-to-remove-30000-faa-workers-from-federal-payroll/2017/03/16/ce4a4e3c-099c-11e7-93dc-00f9bdd74ed1_story.html https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/trafficandcommuting/whi... Relevant quote: "President Trump’s support for a plan to lop more than 30,000 Federal Aviation Administration workers from the federal payroll gives fresh momentum to an effort that stalled in Congress last year. The proposal is included in Trump’s 2018 budget, which would cut funding for the Transportation Department by 13 percent."
- ceejayoz 4y ago
  To be fair, I think that proposal died when it got to Congress.
- factsarelolz 4y ago
  Okay, that's a proposal. Now show where it passed and the results.
- SamPatt 4y ago
  That didn't happen. It was proposed and rejected by Congress. The FAA's budget was not "significantly decreased" as the comment above claimed.
webdoodle 4y ago
It's the folks that hitch themselves to a political party narrative that are the most dangerous, because they can't decouple when the party fails them repeatedly. They start to make excuses, moving the goal posts, and white washing obvious corruption. They become so enamored in it, that they find people on the internet to harass, just so they can feel big and important for putting them in there place.
dragonwriter 4y ago
> Presidents don’t pass budgets. No, they propose, sign, use the veto threat to shape the legislative process on, and use various administrative powers and means to rearrange the actual spending resulting from them, but “passing” budgets is the name for a step in the middle of the process done by someone else. Not sure what your point is; the President is by a very wide margin the single most powerful actor in the shaping of both nominal budgets and actual federal spending.

ceejayoz 4y ago

Presidents propose budgets (the CBO even uses the term "the President's budget"; https://www.cbo.gov/publication/58417 https://www.cbo.gov/publication/58417), sign them into law, threaten Congress with vetos, and have significant influence over their party as a whole. Trump in particular was successful in drubbing opponents out of office; Liz Cheney went from #3 in House leadership to a pariah largely overnight.

roamerz 4y ago
>> Liz Cheney went from #3 in House leadership to a pariah largely overnight. Seems to run in the family. The voters in Wyoming appear to agree.
factsarelolz 4y ago
> Liz Cheney went from #3 in House leadership to a pariah largely overnight. Oh it's Trump fault Liz did what she did? Nope. Liz thought she'd make a name for herself, she did, and is reaping the results of her actions.
- ceejayoz 4y ago
  Whatever you think of her actions, her journey (and similar for a variety of other anti-Trump Republicans) illustrates the power a President can have over Congress. This has pretty clear implications for the budget process.
  - butlerm 4y ago
    Trump was not President at the time of the Liz Cheney leadership controversy, that was after he was out of office. Trump is not President anymore and no one should pretend that he is.
    - factsarelolz 4y ago
      Correct. I guess the lines are blurry for those that let Trump live rent free in their brain. Everything is Trump, even when it isn't. The PsyOp really worked.
drstewart 4y ago
This is all a lot of weasel words to avoid the fact that the President does not pass the budget, and their proposals bear little resemblance to what actually get passed. Liz Cheney is completely irrelevant here. Post FAA's ACTUAL BUDGET over the last 8 years and let us judge.
- ceejayoz 4y ago
  I'm not the one who made the budget assertion; you're mad at someone else. I'm just contesting the idea that the President has no power over the US Federal budget. (I'm of the general opinion that the FAA is fairly well funded, has been very effective at its mission, and could still do with some specific capital projects to modernize non-sexy stuff like NOTAM and METAR handling.)
  - butlerm 4y ago
    There is no US federal budget - not a binding one at any rate. The president recommends and Congress passes budgets for internal purposes, but they do not carry the force of law. The numbers that matter are how much Congress appropriates, and if Congress appropriates $X dollars for something the executive branch is expected to spend it, not second guess Congress and say we really didn't want to spend that money.
    - dragonwriter 4y ago
      > There is no US federal budget - not a binding one at any rate. Yes there is. > The president recommends and Congress passes budgets for internal purposes This is simply false. > but they do not carry the force of law. Yes, budget bills, like other bills, have the force of law once passed and either signed by the President or vetoed and the President’s veto overridden by both Houses (the President’s budget proposals do not have the force of law, just like other unpassed legislative proposals.) > The numbers that matter are how much Congress appropriates “The budget” is just the aggregate of tax and appropriations bills (sometimes, there is an annual package entitled a “comprehensive” or “omnibus” budget bill that covers some tax policy and most or all of the annual appropriations, but that’s rare, and even in that case there are typically continuous and multiyear appropriations and tax policies that are left untouched and outside of it, but which are considered part of the “budget” even though they are aren’t part of the “budget bill”; more commonly, this doesn’t occur.) > if Congress appropriates $X dollars for something the executive branch is expected to spend it, not second guess Congress and say we really didn’t want to spend that money. While this is true, and more than just a soft expectation, since Train v. City of New York and the Impoundment Control Act of 1974, it is not invariably the practice notwithstanding the expectation and the law (cf., the withholding of funds appropriated for Ukraine aid that was central to Trump’s first impeachment.)
butlerm 4y ago
A budget from the executive branch is just a recommendation. Congress might use use it as a starting point, if they bother to pass a budget at all, which they are not in the habit of doing lately unfortunately. As far as Cheney is concerned, Trump had been out of office for months by the time she lost her leadership position. Anything he did was from the sidelines by that point.
- dragonwriter 4y ago
  > Congress might use use it as a starting point, if they bother to pass a budget at all, which they are not in the habit of doing lately unfortunately. A budget is a budget even if it is neither comprehensive (i.e., all functions in one bill) nor for a full fiscal year at a time nor uses the word “budget” in its title.
  - butlerm 4y ago
    In congressional nomenclature however a budget is a guideline for appropriations bills, not something that carries the force of law. And Congress is quite specific about what it appropriates money for, even if it does it all in a several thousand page bill at the last minute. So a federal agency like the FAA generally prepares a budget recommendation that would be submitted to Congress as part of the president's budget, but then Congress would decide how much (if any) to appropriate for each activity, down to the level of individual programs in many cases. By the time Congress gets done with it becomes a list of appropriations, and the agency has no authority to transfer things around, spend money on what Congress did not authorize, or even purposely refuse to spend money (or spend less without a good reason) on what Congress has appropriated funding for.

TehCorwiz 4y ago

https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/trafficandcommuting/white-house-endorses-plan-to-remove-30000-faa-workers-from-federal-payroll/2017/03/16/ce4a4e3c-099c-11e7-93dc-00f9bdd74ed1_story.html https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/trafficandcommuting/whi... Relevant quote: "President Trump’s support for a plan to lop more than 30,000 Federal Aviation Administration workers from the federal payroll gives fresh momentum to an effort that stalled in Congress last year. The proposal is included in Trump’s 2018 budget, which would cut funding for the Transportation Department by 13 percent."

ceejayoz 4y ago
To be fair, I think that proposal died when it got to Congress.
factsarelolz 4y ago
Okay, that's a proposal. Now show where it passed and the results.
SamPatt 4y ago
That didn't happen. It was proposed and rejected by Congress. The FAA's budget was not "significantly decreased" as the comment above claimed.

webdoodle 4y ago

It's the folks that hitch themselves to a political party narrative that are the most dangerous, because they can't decouple when the party fails them repeatedly. They start to make excuses, moving the goal posts, and white washing obvious corruption. They become so enamored in it, that they find people on the internet to harass, just so they can feel big and important for putting them in there place.

dragonwriter 4y ago

> Presidents don’t pass budgets. No, they propose, sign, use the veto threat to shape the legislative process on, and use various administrative powers and means to rearrange the actual spending resulting from them, but “passing” budgets is the name for a step in the middle of the process done by someone else. Not sure what your point is; the President is by a very wide margin the single most powerful actor in the shaping of both nominal budgets and actual federal spending.