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I don't understand why this comment is being downvoted. He makes a valid argument against the tyranny of the (uninformed) majority. A significant number of Am

I don't understand why this comment is being downvoted. He makes a valid argument against the tyranny of the (uninformed) majority. A significant number of Americans thought defaulting on our debt was a good idea and ignored every expert and economist shouting this would be catastrophic. Their argument was simply "we don't believe you" without supporting evidence, and without any desire to listen to counter-arguments. There is plenty of legitimate controversy over monetary policy, but basically everyone agreed defaulting on the debt was not a good idea. I'm not arguing for elitism or benevolent dictatorship, but there are definitely times when "average Joe" has no idea what the fuck he is talking about.

ajross 15y ago
In which case shouldn't the correct solution be to educate Joe about the issue and get him to make informed choices at the voting booth and town hall meeting? Which, it seems, is exactly what happened here. Democracy is working (if not working well). That's a good thing. Edit: three responses now are picking on my use of the term "educate" and referring to the willful ignorance of the public. That's missing the point. People certainly can be "educated" about issues they care about, as demonstrated here. It's not an issue of "book learning" or making Joe watch the news. It's an issue of Joe knowing what matters to him already and getting access to information that impacts those interests.
- polyfractal 15y ago
  I agree, education is key. And I'm happy about what happened in this particular story. Not disputing that at all =) But how do you educate someone that plugs their ears and yells "na na na na"? This is what I was getting at - politicians that legislate the ignorance of the masses, even when credible sources are saying its a catastrophic idea. I don't have an answer to this, by the way. The opposite is legislators that ignore the general public and enforce things "for your own good", which is also a problem.
- gnaritas 15y ago
  Often, Joe doesn't want to be educated; Joe looks down on education; Joe doesn't trust all that fancy book learning.
- srdev 15y ago
  One has to be willing and open to learning to be educated. Often, people discussing politics or economics feel that their understanding is already good and have no desire to learn. This is the main reason that these topics tend to turn into a cesspool of a discussion.
- yummyfajitas 15y ago
  Joe has no incentive to become educated. His odds of affecting the outcome are essentially nil [1], so it's all the same if he votes based on his tribal affiliations or self image (e.g. "look at me, I'm so very not racist!" or "look at me, I'm so religious"). [1] Math can be found here: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1750757 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1750757
  - ajross 15y ago
    Except that's clearly wrong, as evidenced by this very story. Joe reads reddit and hears about SOPA. Joe tells his rep he doesn't like SOPA. And his rep flips. QED. The bug in your logic is that "tribal affiliation" is, in fact, an "issue" Joe cares about. You don't think it's an important issue, and probably don't like his affiliation anyway, but it is and he's going to vote on it. But it isn't the only issue. Basically: you can't expect to "educate" Joe to think like you do. Education can't cure Christiantity, etc... But you can tell him about stuff he cares about. Real people care about SOPA, they just don't know the details. That is something that can be fixed.

ajross 15y ago

In which case shouldn't the correct solution be to educate Joe about the issue and get him to make informed choices at the voting booth and town hall meeting? Which, it seems, is exactly what happened here. Democracy is working (if not working well). That's a good thing. Edit: three responses now are picking on my use of the term "educate" and referring to the willful ignorance of the public. That's missing the point. People certainly can be "educated" about issues they care about, as demonstrated here. It's not an issue of "book learning" or making Joe watch the news. It's an issue of Joe knowing what matters to him already and getting access to information that impacts those interests.

polyfractal 15y ago
I agree, education is key. And I'm happy about what happened in this particular story. Not disputing that at all =) But how do you educate someone that plugs their ears and yells "na na na na"? This is what I was getting at - politicians that legislate the ignorance of the masses, even when credible sources are saying its a catastrophic idea. I don't have an answer to this, by the way. The opposite is legislators that ignore the general public and enforce things "for your own good", which is also a problem.
gnaritas 15y ago
Often, Joe doesn't want to be educated; Joe looks down on education; Joe doesn't trust all that fancy book learning.
srdev 15y ago
One has to be willing and open to learning to be educated. Often, people discussing politics or economics feel that their understanding is already good and have no desire to learn. This is the main reason that these topics tend to turn into a cesspool of a discussion.
yummyfajitas 15y ago
Joe has no incentive to become educated. His odds of affecting the outcome are essentially nil [1], so it's all the same if he votes based on his tribal affiliations or self image (e.g. "look at me, I'm so very not racist!" or "look at me, I'm so religious"). [1] Math can be found here: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1750757 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1750757
- ajross 15y ago
  Except that's clearly wrong, as evidenced by this very story. Joe reads reddit and hears about SOPA. Joe tells his rep he doesn't like SOPA. And his rep flips. QED. The bug in your logic is that "tribal affiliation" is, in fact, an "issue" Joe cares about. You don't think it's an important issue, and probably don't like his affiliation anyway, but it is and he's going to vote on it. But it isn't the only issue. Basically: you can't expect to "educate" Joe to think like you do. Education can't cure Christiantity, etc... But you can tell him about stuff he cares about. Real people care about SOPA, they just don't know the details. That is something that can be fixed.