27 ms·

These products exist _because_ your claims about mushrooms and quinoa being acceptable (and somewhat available) just aren't true. There seems to be this army of

These products exist _because_ your claims about mushrooms and quinoa being acceptable (and somewhat available) just aren't true. There seems to be this army of people who say "compressed vegetables in a circle" are acceptable burger alternatives; they're really not. This market isn't for existing vegans/vegetarians in most cases, it's for people curious about going that way or cutting down their consumption.

sirsinsalot 4y ago
Crazy that the people who don't eat meat can't see the properties of meat that meat eaters like and look for. Why on earth would anyone listen to a vegetarian about what makes a good meat alternative. If a steak chef says an alternative to steak is X, I'll listen.
- chimprich 4y ago
  > Why on earth would anyone listen to a vegetarian about what makes a good meat alternative. Because most vegetarians have likely tried a lot more meat substitutes than a meat eater, and most of them have eaten meat at some point? It seems that any story about meat-eating brings out all the reactionary commenters and switches off critical thinking skills on HN.
  - rob74 4y ago
    True - but OTOH, most serious vegetarians haven't eaten any meat-based products in a long time. And after a long time of not eating meat, I can imagine that your preferences adjust and you actually think that the alternatives taste better than "real" meat? I mean, I only tried a vegetarian/vegan diet for a few weeks (thanks to my wife insisting we do it), and even after this short time, I started being slightly disgusted by products oozing with animal fat - especially when having to clean the frying pan after preparing some burgers...
  - nottorp 4y ago
    > Because most vegetarians have likely tried a lot more meat substitutes than a meat eater Tried, maybe. The vegetarians I know don't do veggie burgers or steaks. They eat the actual vegetables.
  - sirsinsalot 4y ago
    I wouldn't take driving advice off someone that hasn't driven for 10 years, even if they passed their test. I wouldn't take health advice on faith from someone who has a medical degree but never practices medicine. It's about relative interest. My point wasn't that vegetarians can't know, but that their advice isn't as valuable to me as a recommendation from a current meat eater. The meat eater has less agenda and more recent experience to base their recommendation on. > If a steak chef says an alternative to steak is X, I'll listen.
    - chimprich 4y ago
      > I wouldn't take driving advice off someone that hasn't driven for 10 years, even if they passed their test. That's a faulty analogy. The equivalent would be getting advice on alternatives to driving from someone who no longer drives. I don't think I'd request advice on the best form of public transport from someone who drives everywhere and has taken the train once or twice. > The meat eater has less agenda Ha! Really? Everyone has an agenda. Meat eaters / car drivers / vegetarians / non-drivers have all emotionally committed to their decision. It's naive to think otherwise. Everyone likes to assume their choice is the sensible one and the "other side" has an irrational militaristic agenda.
      - sirsinsalot 4y ago
        > I don't think I'd request advice on the best form of public transport from someone who drives everywhere and has taken the train once or twice. My point exactly.
- hutzlibu 4y ago
  Most vegetarians were not born vegetarians, though. Some did recently eat meat so can compare. In my opinion, I don't think anything vegetarian will come close to a steak anytime soon, but I have eaten chili sin carne, without noticing it being vegetarian. My main problem is also simply, that I have not learned yet, to cook without meat very good. It takes effort, but is worth it.
  - michaelbrooks 4y ago
    Fable mushrooms are the closest thing to steak-like that I've ever had. It's even better than the fake meat steaks I've found in supermarkets. I was never a lover of mushrooms in the first place, but these don't even taste or feel like a traditional mushroom. It looks and feels more like steak.
    - prepend 4y ago
      I love fable mushrooms and mushrooms in general. They are not steak substitutes. I’m surprised by people who make this claim. 100/100 if a good chef cooks fable mushroom and a filet or ribeye or sirloin and blind taste tests they are distinguishable. And that’s ok. Mushrooms and steak are different. The textures are a little similar but definitely different. Things can be different, that’s ok.
      - JoeAltmaier 4y ago
        Indeed. Impossible meat etc are also different, and that's OK too. I'm confounded by folks hammering on about how close they are to 'meat'. Hey, chicken, pork, beef are all different too! So what's the problem? Are they good? Do you know a good recipe? That's all that counts.
  - prepend 4y ago
    > Most vegetarians were not born vegetarians, though. I’m not sure about that. Internationally, this definitely isn’t true as most Hindu were born Hindu and vegetarian. And in the US, I’d say that about 1/3 of non-Hindu/ cultural vegetarians friends and acquaintances were born into families that are vegetarian.
- michaelteter 4y ago
  You assume that vegetarians have no history or experience as carnivores. That's certainly not the case for many vegetarians, myself included.
thorin 4y ago
No, they exist because someone can see an opportunity to make the same or more money than they make on beef with something that is extremely cheap for them to manufacture.
helen___keller 4y ago
> These products exist _because_ your claims about mushrooms and quinoa being acceptable (and somewhat available) just aren't true. No, what OP said is exactly correct, but the vast majority of people never get exposure to what good vegetarian food is or how to cook it, so they wouldn’t know. I’ve alternated between vegetarian and omnivore for years, for various reasons (current omnivore but limiting some meats due to cholesterol). I’ve gone through the veggie phase where I think vegetarianism is about black bean burgers and various packaged soy things. It’s unfulfilling from a food perspective, much in the same way that having a diet of fast food and packaged crap is an unfulfilling omnivore diet. If you eat it every day your body starts to enjoy it and crave it, but it’s not good. True food enlightenment is not restricted to veggie/meat, it’s expanding your horizons and discovering new tastes and textures and appreciating the cultures and techniques that produced them. This cuts a lot deeper than at face value whether a mushroom can imitate a steak, because that should never have been the goal.
wil421 4y ago
I don’t need to replace meat with something fake. Western meatless diets try to replace meat with either way too processed of a food or a nasty mash of fake meat. I’ve found I like vegetarian Indian way better than anything else. The dishes do not try to recreate some fake meat concoction.
- cr3ative 4y ago
  Sure! You are not the market for plant-based meat.
michaelteter 4y ago
You missed my point completely. Mushrooms can provide a nice chewy texture to balance other textures in a vegetarian dish. The effect is similar to what meat provides. It's not a processed meat replacement that attempts to mimic meat. Quinoa can provide small chewy things and also absorb spices as it is cooked. Then, like ground beef, it can be mixed with other foods. Just because something is a reasonable substitute doesn't mean it must be a processed "replacement" (as they use the word).

sirsinsalot 4y ago

Crazy that the people who don't eat meat can't see the properties of meat that meat eaters like and look for. Why on earth would anyone listen to a vegetarian about what makes a good meat alternative. If a steak chef says an alternative to steak is X, I'll listen.

chimprich 4y ago
> Why on earth would anyone listen to a vegetarian about what makes a good meat alternative. Because most vegetarians have likely tried a lot more meat substitutes than a meat eater, and most of them have eaten meat at some point? It seems that any story about meat-eating brings out all the reactionary commenters and switches off critical thinking skills on HN.
- rob74 4y ago
  True - but OTOH, most serious vegetarians haven't eaten any meat-based products in a long time. And after a long time of not eating meat, I can imagine that your preferences adjust and you actually think that the alternatives taste better than "real" meat? I mean, I only tried a vegetarian/vegan diet for a few weeks (thanks to my wife insisting we do it), and even after this short time, I started being slightly disgusted by products oozing with animal fat - especially when having to clean the frying pan after preparing some burgers...
- nottorp 4y ago
  > Because most vegetarians have likely tried a lot more meat substitutes than a meat eater Tried, maybe. The vegetarians I know don't do veggie burgers or steaks. They eat the actual vegetables.
- sirsinsalot 4y ago
  I wouldn't take driving advice off someone that hasn't driven for 10 years, even if they passed their test. I wouldn't take health advice on faith from someone who has a medical degree but never practices medicine. It's about relative interest. My point wasn't that vegetarians can't know, but that their advice isn't as valuable to me as a recommendation from a current meat eater. The meat eater has less agenda and more recent experience to base their recommendation on. > If a steak chef says an alternative to steak is X, I'll listen.
  - chimprich 4y ago
    > I wouldn't take driving advice off someone that hasn't driven for 10 years, even if they passed their test. That's a faulty analogy. The equivalent would be getting advice on alternatives to driving from someone who no longer drives. I don't think I'd request advice on the best form of public transport from someone who drives everywhere and has taken the train once or twice. > The meat eater has less agenda Ha! Really? Everyone has an agenda. Meat eaters / car drivers / vegetarians / non-drivers have all emotionally committed to their decision. It's naive to think otherwise. Everyone likes to assume their choice is the sensible one and the "other side" has an irrational militaristic agenda.
    - sirsinsalot 4y ago
      > I don't think I'd request advice on the best form of public transport from someone who drives everywhere and has taken the train once or twice. My point exactly.
hutzlibu 4y ago
Most vegetarians were not born vegetarians, though. Some did recently eat meat so can compare. In my opinion, I don't think anything vegetarian will come close to a steak anytime soon, but I have eaten chili sin carne, without noticing it being vegetarian. My main problem is also simply, that I have not learned yet, to cook without meat very good. It takes effort, but is worth it.
- michaelbrooks 4y ago
  Fable mushrooms are the closest thing to steak-like that I've ever had. It's even better than the fake meat steaks I've found in supermarkets. I was never a lover of mushrooms in the first place, but these don't even taste or feel like a traditional mushroom. It looks and feels more like steak.
  - prepend 4y ago
    I love fable mushrooms and mushrooms in general. They are not steak substitutes. I’m surprised by people who make this claim. 100/100 if a good chef cooks fable mushroom and a filet or ribeye or sirloin and blind taste tests they are distinguishable. And that’s ok. Mushrooms and steak are different. The textures are a little similar but definitely different. Things can be different, that’s ok.
    - JoeAltmaier 4y ago
      Indeed. Impossible meat etc are also different, and that's OK too. I'm confounded by folks hammering on about how close they are to 'meat'. Hey, chicken, pork, beef are all different too! So what's the problem? Are they good? Do you know a good recipe? That's all that counts.
- prepend 4y ago
  > Most vegetarians were not born vegetarians, though. I’m not sure about that. Internationally, this definitely isn’t true as most Hindu were born Hindu and vegetarian. And in the US, I’d say that about 1/3 of non-Hindu/ cultural vegetarians friends and acquaintances were born into families that are vegetarian.
michaelteter 4y ago
You assume that vegetarians have no history or experience as carnivores. That's certainly not the case for many vegetarians, myself included.

thorin 4y ago

No, they exist because someone can see an opportunity to make the same or more money than they make on beef with something that is extremely cheap for them to manufacture.

helen___keller 4y ago

> These products exist _because_ your claims about mushrooms and quinoa being acceptable (and somewhat available) just aren't true. No, what OP said is exactly correct, but the vast majority of people never get exposure to what good vegetarian food is or how to cook it, so they wouldn’t know. I’ve alternated between vegetarian and omnivore for years, for various reasons (current omnivore but limiting some meats due to cholesterol). I’ve gone through the veggie phase where I think vegetarianism is about black bean burgers and various packaged soy things. It’s unfulfilling from a food perspective, much in the same way that having a diet of fast food and packaged crap is an unfulfilling omnivore diet. If you eat it every day your body starts to enjoy it and crave it, but it’s not good. True food enlightenment is not restricted to veggie/meat, it’s expanding your horizons and discovering new tastes and textures and appreciating the cultures and techniques that produced them. This cuts a lot deeper than at face value whether a mushroom can imitate a steak, because that should never have been the goal.

wil421 4y ago

I don’t need to replace meat with something fake. Western meatless diets try to replace meat with either way too processed of a food or a nasty mash of fake meat. I’ve found I like vegetarian Indian way better than anything else. The dishes do not try to recreate some fake meat concoction.

cr3ative 4y ago
Sure! You are not the market for plant-based meat.

michaelteter 4y ago

You missed my point completely. Mushrooms can provide a nice chewy texture to balance other textures in a vegetarian dish. The effect is similar to what meat provides. It's not a processed meat replacement that attempts to mimic meat. Quinoa can provide small chewy things and also absorb spices as it is cooked. Then, like ground beef, it can be mixed with other foods. Just because something is a reasonable substitute doesn't mean it must be a processed "replacement" (as they use the word).