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And we don't need fake meat. It's just something that the food industry can make and sell to us instead of us just eating stuff that grows in the earth. If yo

And we don't need fake meat. It's just something that the food industry can make and sell to us instead of us just eating stuff that grows in the earth. If you want something with a texture similar to meat, many mushrooms will do the job. If you want something reminiscent of ground beef, quinoa with seasoning will suffice. However, limiting yourself to vegetarian approaches of recreating meat dishes, then you are missing out on what good vegetarian food can be. There are now enough great restaurants (as well as endless numbers of cook books) which can help you find very satisfying, or even excitingly new and wonderful meals that involve basic natural plants (and legumes etc.) The problem for many people is they only know the "meat and potatoes" perspective. But they want to reduce their meat consumption, so they buy the meat replacement thing; and that replacement is not particularly healthy, nor is it usually a believable substitute. (It's hard to recreate the exact pleasure that comes from animal fats and proteins.)

Nursie 4y ago
And we don’t need people engaging in vegetarian purity contests and gatekeeping. And we don’t have to eat the same thing all the time. Using a meat substitute is not limiting yourself, you have no idea what people eat on other days, it can simply be an enjoyable part of a varied diet.
- johnwalkr 4y ago
  Someone always makes a comment like this about meat substitutes. Wether you pick the vegetarian or meat-based option, there’s a lot of reasons why someone would choose a processed slice, sausage or whatever over cooking from scratch.
viraptor 4y ago
We don't need any kind of specific food. Some people just like it, even if we know the alternatives. For example I enjoy both meet and vegan food, but will take Grill'd Impossible burger over a beef one. The good plant based burgers reached the level of being good on their own for me, not as a replacement.
cr3ative 4y ago
These products exist _because_ your claims about mushrooms and quinoa being acceptable (and somewhat available) just aren't true. There seems to be this army of people who say "compressed vegetables in a circle" are acceptable burger alternatives; they're really not. This market isn't for existing vegans/vegetarians in most cases, it's for people curious about going that way or cutting down their consumption.
- sirsinsalot 4y ago
  Crazy that the people who don't eat meat can't see the properties of meat that meat eaters like and look for. Why on earth would anyone listen to a vegetarian about what makes a good meat alternative. If a steak chef says an alternative to steak is X, I'll listen.
  - chimprich 4y ago
    > Why on earth would anyone listen to a vegetarian about what makes a good meat alternative. Because most vegetarians have likely tried a lot more meat substitutes than a meat eater, and most of them have eaten meat at some point? It seems that any story about meat-eating brings out all the reactionary commenters and switches off critical thinking skills on HN.
    - rob74 4y ago
      True - but OTOH, most serious vegetarians haven't eaten any meat-based products in a long time. And after a long time of not eating meat, I can imagine that your preferences adjust and you actually think that the alternatives taste better than "real" meat? I mean, I only tried a vegetarian/vegan diet for a few weeks (thanks to my wife insisting we do it), and even after this short time, I started being slightly disgusted by products oozing with animal fat - especially when having to clean the frying pan after preparing some burgers...
    - nottorp 4y ago
      > Because most vegetarians have likely tried a lot more meat substitutes than a meat eater Tried, maybe. The vegetarians I know don't do veggie burgers or steaks. They eat the actual vegetables.
pjmlp 4y ago
Agreed, I am not vegetarian, but when I want to eat vegeatarian dishes the last thing I ever want to get is fake meat.
- yreg 4y ago
  These are not supposed to substitute the vegetarian dishes you eat, but the meat dishes you eat. It works for some people, e.g. me.
  - pjmlp 4y ago
    When I want meat, I eat it, no need to have a fake version of it.
    - yreg 4y ago
      Good for you
  - prepend 4y ago
    I think you’re right that that is the intent. But since it is more expensive and has worse macros, it doesn’t seem like a good substitute. If it was healthier and cheaper, I would gladly swap it out. But it’s not, so I don’t. Alternatively, if it tasted better than meat, I would pay more. But it doesn’t, so I don’t. I think the market remaining are vegetarians who don’t eat meat for ethical reasons, so they are willing to pay more. I actually prefer the old veggie patties like boca burgers as they are quite a bit cheaper than beef for the same protein.
    - yreg 4y ago
      It would be cheaper if meat wasn't ridiculously subsidised, which needs to change. In restaurants it costs about the same. Regarding health it of course depends on product and what metric of healthiness we are looking at. With burger patties I consider them to be at least the same. With sausages I would consider the plant version healthier. Taste is subjective and also a matter of trying out things and getting used to them. I love meat, but I also like the taste of many plant based alternatives as well and sometimes I even crave them over meat. Ethical/ecological angle is clear. (I live in EU and consume more actual meat than plant based alternatives.)
strken 4y ago
As a consumer, I want a good vegan protein source that isn't carb-heavy and is easy to cook with, whether or not it's a fake meat. Something with the same macros as skinless chicken breast (75% balanced protein by calorie, 25% fat) would be perfect. Tempeh is okay but fattier and closer to a steak. TVP is higher protein but has carbs instead of fats. Pea protein powder is perfect but I have no idea how to use large quantities of it in a solid meal.
- donavanm 4y ago
  As an fyi here in AU there are a handful of chicken facsimiles based on pea protein. Theyre “ok” to cook with, but tend to be a bit dry and lacking in binding agents in my experience. Not quite as good as the wheat gluten and soy products yet.
- diydsp 4y ago
  Sweet Earth seitan has almost identical macros to chicken breast. And easy to saute or microwave and put in sandwichs, wraps and bowls. Nature's promise makes a similar competitor.
xtracto 4y ago
> However, limiting yourself to vegetarian approaches of recreating meat dishes, then you are missing out on what good vegetarian food can be. This is the key to becoming a vegetarian/plant-based food eater. I cook an amazing lasagna-like (sandwich-cake like) vegan meal with Plantain slices as the sheets and a yummy inside with soy, bell pepper and herbs. It's delicious. But people keep wanting to mimic the same meat-based recipes with vegetables... it just doesn't work. I love a good steak, a nice bbq hamburger (usually I eat them on weekends) but also love the vegan food I eat through the week.
- yunwal 4y ago
  > I cook an amazing lasagna-like… > people keep wanting to mimic the same meat-based recipes with vegetables... Do you see what you’ve just done here?
antipurist 4y ago
Hopefully, soon we'll be able to get the exact pleasure that comes from animal fats and proteins without slaughtering cows or plant-based imitations — cultured meat is already a thing, it's a matter of time before it becomes affordable: https://mosameat.com/growing-beef https://mosameat.com/growing-beef
lelanthran 4y ago
> However, limiting yourself to vegetarian approaches of recreating meat dishes, then you are missing out on what good vegetarian food can be. The people looking for meat alternatives are looking for something that looks, tastes and feels like meat. A > good vegetarian dish is not what they are looking for.
stepanhruda 4y ago
Yeah, no. I’m a vegetarian and life without these meat substitutes would be much harder.

Nursie 4y ago

And we don’t need people engaging in vegetarian purity contests and gatekeeping. And we don’t have to eat the same thing all the time. Using a meat substitute is not limiting yourself, you have no idea what people eat on other days, it can simply be an enjoyable part of a varied diet.

johnwalkr 4y ago
Someone always makes a comment like this about meat substitutes. Wether you pick the vegetarian or meat-based option, there’s a lot of reasons why someone would choose a processed slice, sausage or whatever over cooking from scratch.

viraptor 4y ago

We don't need any kind of specific food. Some people just like it, even if we know the alternatives. For example I enjoy both meet and vegan food, but will take Grill'd Impossible burger over a beef one. The good plant based burgers reached the level of being good on their own for me, not as a replacement.

cr3ative 4y ago

These products exist _because_ your claims about mushrooms and quinoa being acceptable (and somewhat available) just aren't true. There seems to be this army of people who say "compressed vegetables in a circle" are acceptable burger alternatives; they're really not. This market isn't for existing vegans/vegetarians in most cases, it's for people curious about going that way or cutting down their consumption.

sirsinsalot 4y ago
Crazy that the people who don't eat meat can't see the properties of meat that meat eaters like and look for. Why on earth would anyone listen to a vegetarian about what makes a good meat alternative. If a steak chef says an alternative to steak is X, I'll listen.
- chimprich 4y ago
  > Why on earth would anyone listen to a vegetarian about what makes a good meat alternative. Because most vegetarians have likely tried a lot more meat substitutes than a meat eater, and most of them have eaten meat at some point? It seems that any story about meat-eating brings out all the reactionary commenters and switches off critical thinking skills on HN.
  - rob74 4y ago
    True - but OTOH, most serious vegetarians haven't eaten any meat-based products in a long time. And after a long time of not eating meat, I can imagine that your preferences adjust and you actually think that the alternatives taste better than "real" meat? I mean, I only tried a vegetarian/vegan diet for a few weeks (thanks to my wife insisting we do it), and even after this short time, I started being slightly disgusted by products oozing with animal fat - especially when having to clean the frying pan after preparing some burgers...
  - nottorp 4y ago
    > Because most vegetarians have likely tried a lot more meat substitutes than a meat eater Tried, maybe. The vegetarians I know don't do veggie burgers or steaks. They eat the actual vegetables.

pjmlp 4y ago

Agreed, I am not vegetarian, but when I want to eat vegeatarian dishes the last thing I ever want to get is fake meat.

yreg 4y ago
These are not supposed to substitute the vegetarian dishes you eat, but the meat dishes you eat. It works for some people, e.g. me.
- pjmlp 4y ago
  When I want meat, I eat it, no need to have a fake version of it.
  - yreg 4y ago
    Good for you
- prepend 4y ago
  I think you’re right that that is the intent. But since it is more expensive and has worse macros, it doesn’t seem like a good substitute. If it was healthier and cheaper, I would gladly swap it out. But it’s not, so I don’t. Alternatively, if it tasted better than meat, I would pay more. But it doesn’t, so I don’t. I think the market remaining are vegetarians who don’t eat meat for ethical reasons, so they are willing to pay more. I actually prefer the old veggie patties like boca burgers as they are quite a bit cheaper than beef for the same protein.
  - yreg 4y ago
    It would be cheaper if meat wasn't ridiculously subsidised, which needs to change. In restaurants it costs about the same. Regarding health it of course depends on product and what metric of healthiness we are looking at. With burger patties I consider them to be at least the same. With sausages I would consider the plant version healthier. Taste is subjective and also a matter of trying out things and getting used to them. I love meat, but I also like the taste of many plant based alternatives as well and sometimes I even crave them over meat. Ethical/ecological angle is clear. (I live in EU and consume more actual meat than plant based alternatives.)

strken 4y ago

As a consumer, I want a good vegan protein source that isn't carb-heavy and is easy to cook with, whether or not it's a fake meat. Something with the same macros as skinless chicken breast (75% balanced protein by calorie, 25% fat) would be perfect. Tempeh is okay but fattier and closer to a steak. TVP is higher protein but has carbs instead of fats. Pea protein powder is perfect but I have no idea how to use large quantities of it in a solid meal.

donavanm 4y ago
As an fyi here in AU there are a handful of chicken facsimiles based on pea protein. Theyre “ok” to cook with, but tend to be a bit dry and lacking in binding agents in my experience. Not quite as good as the wheat gluten and soy products yet.
diydsp 4y ago
Sweet Earth seitan has almost identical macros to chicken breast. And easy to saute or microwave and put in sandwichs, wraps and bowls. Nature's promise makes a similar competitor.

xtracto 4y ago

> However, limiting yourself to vegetarian approaches of recreating meat dishes, then you are missing out on what good vegetarian food can be. This is the key to becoming a vegetarian/plant-based food eater. I cook an amazing lasagna-like (sandwich-cake like) vegan meal with Plantain slices as the sheets and a yummy inside with soy, bell pepper and herbs. It's delicious. But people keep wanting to mimic the same meat-based recipes with vegetables... it just doesn't work. I love a good steak, a nice bbq hamburger (usually I eat them on weekends) but also love the vegan food I eat through the week.

yunwal 4y ago
> I cook an amazing lasagna-like… > people keep wanting to mimic the same meat-based recipes with vegetables... Do you see what you’ve just done here?

antipurist 4y ago

Hopefully, soon we'll be able to get the exact pleasure that comes from animal fats and proteins without slaughtering cows or plant-based imitations — cultured meat is already a thing, it's a matter of time before it becomes affordable: https://mosameat.com/growing-beef https://mosameat.com/growing-beef

lelanthran 4y ago

> However, limiting yourself to vegetarian approaches of recreating meat dishes, then you are missing out on what good vegetarian food can be. The people looking for meat alternatives are looking for something that looks, tastes and feels like meat. A > good vegetarian dish is not what they are looking for.

stepanhruda 4y ago

Yeah, no. I’m a vegetarian and life without these meat substitutes would be much harder.